Access panels?

[cberg]

How do folks deal with access panels in Vectorworks, (besides modeling them as solid objects)?  I need to insert access panels into walls, and either floors or slabs?  Depending on how ceilings are modeled...

 

This seems fairly basic, and relatively fundamental to BIM modeling, so maybe there are panels buried in a symbol library somewhere.

 

 

 

 

[Tom Klaber]

As far as I know there is no built-in access panel tool, or included library.  

You could check out BIM object to see if there are any suppliers that have model specific symbols available.  Otherwise, I think you are going to have to make your own access panel symbol.  You can set the symbol to insert into walls, though it's always tough when you are not completely penetrating.  

I recently ran into something similar when trying to deal with electric panels.  The best solution I found was to model the panel, then create an auto-hybrid, and then simply place on the wall rather than insert into the wall:

 

 

I found a manufacturer online, downloaded a cad. 

[cberg]

Thanks Tom. 

 

I found one that was accurate.  It would be nice to have them as smart objects!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Klaber]

Super nice....

Or better yet - an easy way for us to may our own smart parametric objects...

 

(Cue people saying "Maronite!!")

[Kevin McAllister]

1 hour ago, Tom Klaber said:

You can set the symbol to insert into walls, though it's always tough when you are not completely penetrating.

 

Can I ask what the challenges are with an object that's inserted into wall but doesn't go all the way through?

 

This would be a cool use of a parametric Marionette Object. I wonder if its possible or on the road map - a marionette objects that generates a 2d component, a 3d component and a wall hole component that can be inserted into walls.... I don't think there's any way of doing this now but @MarissaFmight know if its been talked about. It would be a cool wishlist item for Marionette.

 

Kevin

[Marissa Farrell]

1 minute ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

Can I ask what the challenges are with an object that's inserted into wall but doesn't go all the way through?

 

This would be a cool use of a parametric Marionette Object. I wonder if its possible or on the road map - a marionette objects that generates a 2d component, a 3d component and a wall hole component that can be inserted into walls.... I don't think there's any way of doing this now but @MarissaFmight know if its been talked about. It would be a cool wishlist item for Marionette.

 

Kevin

I actually believe this is already possible. Robert Anderson has a skylight example that will insert into roofs, if I remember correctly.

[Kevin McAllister]

2 minutes ago, MarissaF said:

I actually believe this is already possible. Robert Anderson has a skylight example that will insert into roofs, if I remember correctly.

 

Of course, I remember seeing that example. The thread is here - 

But unfortunately the file was a victim of the forum transfer. @MarissaFis there any chance of reposting the file?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

 

[Marissa Farrell]

2 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

But unfortunately the file was a victim of the forum transfer. @MarissaFis there any chance of reposting the file?

 

I updated the first post in that thread with Robert's original files. Let me know if there are any others you need.  

[Kevin McAllister]

Thanks Marissa!

 

Kevin

 

[Tom Klaber]

59 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

Can I ask what the challenges are with an object that's inserted into wall but doesn't go all the way through?

 

 

1

Because the wall cuts completely - regardless if the object requires it.  So if here is the same breaker panel as a symbol inserted into the wall:

The wall does not heal itself around the symbol object.  I do not believe the wall whole component fixes this.   You could build in the missing piece of the wall as part of the symbol, but the symbol only work with walls of that thickness.

I would SOOO love to be wrong about this.

[Marissa Farrell]

15 minutes ago, Tom Klaber said:

The wall does not heal itself around the symbol object.  I do not believe the wall whole component fixes this.   You could build in the missing piece of the wall as part of the symbol, but the symbol only work with walls of that thickness.

 

Without actually testing this - I think there is a way to query if the object is inserted in a wall, which would allow us to get the parameters (i.e. thickness) of the wall and take it into consideration when building in that missing piece. Food for thought. I will look into it as soon as I have more free time.

 

EDIT:

I'm actually 90 percent sure that we can just define how far into the wall the object will cut. Will update when I verify this.

[Pat Stanford]

One of the options when you create a symbol is how it is inserted in a Wall is if it will insert in a wall or not. If it does insert in the wall, you can select how it will break the wall.  Just choose the Half break or No break options and you should get what you want.

 

I don't know how this works if you use custom Wall Hole components.

[Marissa Farrell]

Pat beat me to it - here was my example.

 

This is using a 3D Wall Hole Component that matched the extrude exactly.

 

 

EDIT:

with a proper Hybrid object, Top/Plan could look like this:

 

 

[Tom Klaber]

omg.  so obvious.

strange the things you miss.

[Kevin McAllister]

1 hour ago, Tom Klaber said:

Because the wall cuts completely - regardless if the object requires it.  So if here is the same breaker panel as a symbol inserted into the wall:

The wall does not heal itself around the symbol object.  I do not believe the wall whole component fixes this.   You could build in the missing piece of the wall as part of the symbol, but the symbol only work with walls of that thickness.

I would SOOO love to be wrong about this.

 

Example attached where the symbol only cuts part of the wall. The wall hole component needs to match only the part recessed into the wall and the Wall Break needs to be set to Half Break.

 

Kevin

Wall Symbol.vwx

[AlanW]

Hi,

This is a Marionette Object as a symbol slotted into a wall and it cuts to a desired distance.

Will post a file later.

[Tom Klaber]

49 minutes ago, Alan Woodwell said:

Hi,

This is a Marionette Object as a symbol slotted into a wall and it cuts to a desired distance.

Will post a file later.

 

Please do - I need to understand this better.

[AlanW]

This file has a few symbols in it and in 3D you can see the cutout correctly working but flip it to top plan view and its not the same. Need to discover why this does not work the same.

The penetration is not in the marionette object but in the symbol. Will look for a node to add the penetration so the hole changes when you change the marionette object.

 

Post_Box-01_v2017.vwx

[Kevin McAllister]

40 minutes ago, Alan Woodwell said:

Will look for a node to add the penetration so the hole changes when you change the marionette object.

 

Alan, there's a node that does this in the skylight example linked earlier in this thread - Set as Hole Cutting Obj

Kevin

[AlanW]

@Kevin McAllisterThanks Kevin. So this file has an adjustable recessed box inserted in a wall which has the wall hole component attached. Both symbol and Marionette Object.

The odd thing i found is that using the clip cube you can see the cutout as designed but in plan view the cutout goes to the edge of the symbol and not the hole component.

Post_Box-02_v2017.zip

1

Edited January 22, 2017 by Alan Woodwell

[cberg]

I think all this discussion leads me to believe we really need a panel object tool!  And more control over how insertions in walls are framed and finished. 

 

I pretty much followed Tom's recommendation in developing a symbol and cutting a hole in the wall using the wall recess feature. However I did not place the symbol in the wall.  Better BIM practice would be to have smart objects that properly embed in the walls, so that they can move and associate accordingly. 

 

Thanks for all your help.