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VW10 users: tell me your grievances!

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What problems are you having with VectorWorks 10?

Satisfied with the relative competence, consistency, and reliability (well, for a mac, anyway) of VW9.5.3, especially under X.2.6, I was hoping to avoid moving the office upward until VW11.5.something.

Fate has conspired against me.

I've kept blind to VW10 and its inevitable bugs so that I could focus on various elements of our OS9 to OSX transition, but my hand will soon be forced to upgrade to VW10. I would like a synopsis of problems people have encountered. I welcome your gripes and frustrations!

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Originally posted by DaveHi50:

i have V10--PC version--I love it, I have no complaints,

User since MiniCad 7.

Same experience here. VW 10 seems stable, but I'd say slower machines may be sluggish under VW 10. My P-3 800 works well, but there is a hesitation when I select PIO's while the information loads into the palette.

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We continue to have the following problems in VWA10 on OS 10.2.x with a variety of different mac hardware configurations:

Worksheets/Fonts - We use a machine still running classic to plot, since unresolved font problems make worksheets plot screwy from 10.2.x. If all you need is Arial or Geneva, you may be Ok. Never seen a good answer why this problem only exists with VWA.....we mix a variety of CAD/graphic/3D work, and plot Ok from other programs. We have experienced no exceptions to this significant problem.

VW files above 1mg start to run slow, and around 1.5mg there is a noticeable delay between commands. This is sometimes resolved by restarting. This occurs on a g4/933 w/1.25 gb ram, and, obviously, slower machines.

Exporting to .dwg from OS10.2.x takes so long it is not possible - I have had to force-quit at 30 minutes; so, we export from classic. Apparently, according to NNA, just one PIO will increase the export time, but I've experienced this on files with only 2D elements. We have experienced no exceptions to this significant problem.

The Set-up Assitant (and related Task Manager) is an annoying "improvement", because part of the cost to upgrade covers the obvious extensive development time for what is a virtually useless script. If you unleash the Set-up Assistant, even to 10% of it's capabilities, you'll have an unmanageable file chock-full of classes/layers, that requires another intensive management tool (Task Manager) to sort through. The Set-up Assistant will have you issuing 10 drawings when 3-4 would suffice.......all this script work, while the TB is full of requests for better workgroup referencing, and has been common to other programs for the last 6 years+.

We have some other issues, but they are more related to the same kind of specific issues and work-arounds that would exist in any release.

We have noticed a decrease in Tech Board activity, except for new users, which highlights that 10.x is not so improved over 9.x, except for stability. In that regard, VWA10 is what --9.x should have been.......

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Worksheets/Fonts -

If you are referring to when worksheets are printing and fonts are being substituted for another font -- this was a problem in OS 10. The fonts would print scrunched up. To workaround the problem until addressed by Apple, all OPen Type fonts are substituted with the default system font.

This problem (i believe) was resolved in OS 10.2.6. Unfortuntaley, we still have a number of users on OS 10.1 and have not re-fixed the problem with this. There is a chance this change may be made in the future.

This topic has been explained in other locations on the MB by myself.

The engineers are continuing to address speed issues especially with OS 10.

Exporting to .dwg from OS10.2.x takes so long it is not possible

The export process is a little slower in VW 10 because you can export hatches. COnverting VW hatches to hatch types supported by the DXF standard takes some time.

If you do not have the need to export hatches or can live wihtout exporting the hatches, remove the check mark next to "export hatches" in the epxort dialog box. The export process will be just as fast if not faster than in previous versions.

When you are referring to the SEt up Assistant -- is the problem with the number of layers and classes that are created?

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Worksheets/Fonts - Yes, NNA has explained the problem, of which we are fully aware, Ok..., but, we still can't plot from 10.2.6 in VWA10.x, yet we are able to plot from other programs with the same font that causes the trouble in VWA. So, the NNA explanation lacks some oomph. We will continue to plot from classic.

While engineers continue to address the speed issue, we are becoming intimately acquainted with the SPOD (spinning pizza of death).

Expoort to .dwg - Your explanation is a workaround (check this box, uncheck this here other box, and only export on Tuesdays....), while we need software that just works. NNA designed the export set-up, and it does not work effectively. It is NOT as fast as previous versions, or we would not be using classic to export.

The Set-up Assistant - This post, and some of my previous postings under other topics (Management Assistant), address this issue thoroughly. I dare anyone to use the SA to it's full extent and make money with a set of CDs. The SA may be a software engineer's dream, but it does not work for us.

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Converting a complex object like a hatch, where some hatches have 15+ layers of lines takes a bit of math calculation, espcially to get it to work witht he complexity of the DXF standards for hatches there.

It's just a reaaaaallllly large computation, espcially if you have alot of hatches.

At some point and for some things, time has to be sacrificed for technology.

Look how fast it is to save data to a floppy vs. saving data and burning it to a CD. A CD takes way more time for the same ammont of data.. but it is an advance in technology and is generally accepted.

You say you can't print from VW and OS 10.2. -- what type of problem are you having?

Just about every printing problem is able to be resolved under OS 10.

If you have a specific list of qualms with the VSA Setup Assistant process, please send it to me and I can forward it to the appropriate engineer here for review.

[ 07-16-2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Katie ]

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VW10 needs at least 800 m processor to operate in 3d design. We had G4's at 400 m and did abit of waiting whie the computers rendered. We did upgrade to dual g4's @ 1.25 m and have been pleased with NNA's VW10.1.6 since.

If you have older printers/plotters/scanners, check for OSX drivers or use Gimp Print.

Good Luck,

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Ti, I have found version 10.1.2 to be stable and a fair improvement over version 9. But I operate out of Windows, and there seem to be more problems on the Mac side.

Specific complaints about the Window and Door PIOs have been cured, with a few wish-list items still out there. Speed issues with snapping under some circumstances have been cured. There are numerous small production-oriented improvements over version 9 that are all working, and which I find useful. I'm especially happy that the Walkthrough tool with OpenGL rendering works with 10, where it had been broken in version 9.

If you are looking to prepare for the inevitable hitches, I would look to the issues that have been raised with regard to the Mac OS and to plotting glitches. Despite Katie's good work, I don't think there is a solid fix to the "scrunched text" plotting problem, which causes me frequently to dump the first in a series of plots. I'm supposed to look for a corrupt font, but I just don't have the time to fool with that - and no other program I use has a problem with my fonts, and a faulty plot always works properly on a second attempt.

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According to PR's post above, the font problem exists on Windows platforms as well. If so, then NNA's explanation that this is related to the Mac OS is clearly inaccurate, and that's disappointing. The problem may be related to OS X, in the same fashion it appears related to Windows, but it's VW's interface, not the os. This problem ONLY occurs with VWA10.x (on 10.1.x & 10.2.1, .2, .3, .4, .5 & .6), and we plot fine with the same fonts from other programs.

In another attempt to clarify previous postings, by repeating what is obvious to anyone with mac, plotter, and a font other than Geneva (NNA - do you have this set-up in house?), non-system fonts in worksheets are substituted with a system font when plotting, so the screen layout and sheet design is not what one receives from the plotter. Due to differences in font structure, particlualry kerning, the worksheet will run out of bounds, over adjacent work. This problem is only slightly improved over the original font jumbling problem, where the fonts were substituted AND text overlayed on itself, and stayed within the bounds of the worksheet.

Anyone "upgrading" to VW10 should be prepared to plot from classic on the mac if they expect the drawing to appear as it does on screen.

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Speed Tests

Mac PowerBook G4 / OS 9.2.2 / 500 MHz / 1GB RAM

VWA 9.5.2

Move Plan Instantaneous

Hidden line 27 min

Win 98se / 512MB RAM / 1 GHz Pentium III

VWA 9.5.2

Move Plan Instantaneous

Hidden Line 38:30 min/sec

Win 98se / 512MB RAM / 1 GHz Pentium III

VWA 10.1.2

Move Plan 20 sec

Hidden Line 26 min

Win XP / 1GB Ram / 2x 3Ghz

VWA 10.1.2

Move Plan 20 sec

Hidden Line 6 1/2 min

The plan tested is somewhat complex, about 1 MB by itself as a standalone file.

As tested above, it?s in a 37 MB file. Moving the plan in it?s own (smaller) file takes about 2 seconds w/ WVA 10 and XP and dual processors. Therefore, overall file complexity seems to have an effect on the speed at which commands are executed.

The hidden line rendering is of a perspective of a group of two and three-story townhouses.

One conclusion: There?s a problem with 10.1.2 moving (click-and-drag) complex sets of objects.

Another conclusion: VWA 10.1.2 does little for speed unless you do a significant hardware upgrade (per the above), so you could surmise that it?s the hardware, not VWA that?s making the biggest difference.

Another conclusion: The G4 is a super chip.

[ 07-21-2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: ErichR ]

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Mac G4 9.5.2 / 1.25 /1.5G Ram HP500PS/ VW10.1.2

WinDoor 10 / no problems w/any major concern, am glad to have made the move to 10.1.2 but remain w/ 9.5.2 as opposed to os10 because I need my 500PS to continue working, Date stamp causes system to lock up is the only bug I have found ! User since Blueprint 2.0 (1988)

[ 07-18-2003, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: andesign ]

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I was having many of the same font-related issues. I have now removed all but "true type" fonts from my drawings and worksheets and lo and behold all the problems seem to be solved!

I am on a Mac G4, running OS 10.2.6 and VWA w/ RW 10.1.2. Plotting to an old HP Design Jet 230 over an appletalk network.

Peter Cipes

User since MiniCad 4

PS: In response to the original question: I am quite happy with VW 10xx. There are a couple irritating little bugs with Plug-ins inserted into walls, but I trust (hope) that NNA is working on them.

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I'm running OSX 10.2.6 and have no problems that are unique to that system. I regularly have 15-20Mg files without any problems. I always print pdf's to service bureaus, and once they get the first one set up right, it's been easy to get prints. The problems I see are all related to round designs--things not working as well in round walls as in straight, the shell command being hit-and-miss (mostly miss), the Blend Edge tool being almost completely useless for my shapes. Just had a solar animation be out of registry with no clue what to fix. But these things aren't unique to the Mac version or the VW version....I think they've always been that way.

But the program seems reliable enough (compared to others I've used) and I seem to be able to get done what I need to.

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