Treat NURBS Curves Like 3d Objects When Rendering

[Kevin McAllister]

I wish VW would treat NURBS curves like 3d objects when rendering so they look the same as an edge of any other piece of geometry. (Yes, they would disappear when rendered in a Renderworks mode or OpenGL with edges off which. This would be better than them being weird line thickness in other modes like they are now.)

NURBS curves are not the same as planar objects and shouldn't fall into the same category. They are true 3d objects. I have used them in this way for years but recent rendering "improvements" have made it more difficult to make them look good.

Kevin

[PVA - Jim]

I agree completely. Submitting request now for:

1) NURBS curves being treated as edges (with no faces) in all rendering modes.

2) 3D control of edge weights per-object or per object type, but the logistics of which will have to be hammered out, theres a few ways we could approach it.

3) Filtering object visibility by Type, rather than just Class or Layer. This seems like it would most likely fit well in viewport overrides unless a more complex Tagging system is possible.

VE-96224

[PVA - Jim]

No problem. I had a few cases from you with similar instances, there were some communication problems previously explaining the issue clearly in those submittals but for anyone else reading now that might be confused, I think I got them cleared up with this example:

Its a sphere, converted to s NURBS surface and then sliced apart. The surface sections have clearly defined edges as expected, since they are the edges of a face. The swirling line outside the sphere is a NURBS curve, which renders solid as expected when outside the faces of the sphere, and renders invisible when hidden by faces of the sphere, which is also as expected.

The red arrow marks a NURBS curve that is exactly along the surface of the sphere. This "edge" appears greyed or dashed, and depending on the camera angle and quality can vary in appearance wildly from render to render, which is not ideal.

Edited March 18, 2016 by JimW

[Kevin McAllister]

An alternate solution would be a tag system like in C4D so I could exclude NURBS or other objects from rendering in certain Sheet Layer Viewport rendering modes.

ie. with a sheet layer viewport rendered in Custom Renderworks Background and Hidden Line Foreground I could exclude object from rendering in the Background mode but but still have them render in the foreground mode.

Tagging would actually solve a lot of issues, especially 3d text and dimensions in rendered sheet layer viewports. (I actually suspect VW does some sort tagging behind the scenes already.)

KM

[Benson Shaw]

+1

I would like to see line weight controls on NURBS curves.

I'm not very familiar with tags. Kevin, can you explain a few ways Vectorworks tags could work. Seems it could be a huge new functionality for Vectorworks.

Are they user created for a specific action, such as Render as Edge?

Are tags with specific functions included in the software?

Are tags passive id markers, ie a way to sort objects so that existing tools and commands can be applied to the objects with the tags?

[Kevin McAllister]

I'm not very familiar with tags. Kevin, can you explain a few ways Vectorworks tags could work. Seems it could be a huge new functionality for Vectorworks.

Are they user created for a specific action, such as Render as Edge?

Are tags with specific functions included in the software?

Are tags passive id markers, ie a way to sort objects so that existing tools and commands can be applied to the objects with the tags?

Benson,

I've only used Tags a little bit in C4D. They are basically a label or characteristic assigned to an object. Textures, for example, are assigned as Tags in C4D (and likely behind the scenes in VW too since that's how the C4D render engine sees them). In C4D they can be used for various things, like whether an object receives cast shadows or excluding an object from rendering. Or lights can be focussed by adding a Target tag to the object you want them to hit. Or it could be as simple as a Note tag that gives more information about an object like say when it was last revised. Most often they affect the outcome when rendering a scene since they are parsed during the rendering process.

In VW I could see them being assigned to specific objects or assigned by class. As you say they could be used for sorting and various other tasks. I think you would really only want them to affect rendering in Sheet Layer viewports since having to take tags into account when rendering in the design layers would add an extra layer of delay.

Kevin

[Benson Shaw]

Thanks, Kevin! - Tags would be great, even if only for VP renders.

[Kaare Baekgaard]

+1

[Kevin McAllister]

Thanks Jim!

Kevin

[Kevin McAllister]

If you render your object in a sheet layer viewport that uses Hidden Line rendering with Generate Intersecting Line turned on you'll get more of a mess. This setting is "projecting" through NURBS curves onto forward surfaces that they aren't on in many instances. Not desirable. I think its already logged.

KM

[Kevin McAllister]

PS. good example. You are the keeper of all knowledge VW......

Kevin

[Kevin McAllister]

Bump

[zoomer]

With an Option, to exclude 2D Objects from rendering, if needed.

[Kevin McAllister]

45 minutes ago, zoomer said:

With an Option, to exclude 2D Objects from rendering, if needed.

Zoomer, can you elaborate on this? NURBS objects are inherently 3d and I want them to be treated that way.

Kevin

[zoomer]

Ah, I meant also the option to render "2D" Lines, open Polylines and such things by setting
a Thickness or Even a Profile for these. At a time that was a great Feature in 3D Polygon Software.
That could only render Polygons with at least 3 Vertices.

Microstation always rendered all "2D" Elements.
And there it was nice to have that "exclude 2D Elements" in Render Settings to not always need
to watch the Path of your Camera Animation.

Like Microstation, I do not know any 2D or "Floor Plan View only" Elements.
Such a 2 Point Line can also happen anywhere in 3D Space.

[Kevin McAllister]

Bumping this. I fight this issue on every project. Not sure how else were supposed to represent lines in space other than using NURBS curves (guy wires, cables, or anything else that would be represented by a single line on a drawing without adding lots of geometry).

 

Kevin

[Kevin McAllister]

Bumping this.

 

KM

[Art V]

One would think this could have been fixed by now. Hopefully it will be fixed in VW2019 as I expect to be using NURBS quite a bit more in the foreseeable future than I do now.