3d component of symbols disappearing

[michaelk]

Bill

Just tried your suggestion of turning on all classes.

Didn't work for me. I turned on all classes in a SLVP and all classes in the design layer. No symbols materialized out of the ether.

Check for a message.

michaelk

Edited January 9, 2010 by michaelk

[brudgers]

Actually, it triggered something in my memory.

I had a similar experience when I was experimenting with 3d objects and classes.

If you assign the path and profile of an EAP to different classes then turn the various classes on and off...the EAP will fail to regenerate sometimes even though all it's classes should be visible.

I just experimented with it and I can reproduce the disappearing behaviour.

I even used a 3d only symbol to add a third layer of complexity.

If one were using saved views, it would be easy to experience this frequently.

It's as if the changes in class visibility aren't forcing a "regen" all the way down the tree of the EAP, but the render modes often will.

[brudgers]

I can reproduce the behaviour.

Make an EAP.

Place the profile in one class, the path in another (not sure this makes a difference).

Put it in a symbol.

Place the symbol in a third class (not sure this makes any difference).

Turn off the profile class (this is also the EAP class).

Now turn the profile class back on.

I can select the object using ctl-a (select all).

But it's not drawn on screen.

right clicking and editing the 3d component will make it redraw.

[billtheia]

brudgers, none of my problem symbols are EAPs. They all have extrudes in them, though.

[brudgers]

I can't repeat it in 2008 with a plain extrude.

However, the code could have been refactored for 2010...after all a plain extrude is just an EAP with the path generated automatically...it doesn't really make sense to require a second type of object, IMO.

[Kevin McAllister]

I have had similar problems with 3D symbols. It often seems to happen when things are "nested" (when I say nested, I am referring to anything that you double click on to edit. I would consider extrudes nested, as are things like solid additions/subtractions and groups). Do the culprit symbols behave the same way if you convert the extrudes to generic solids?

Kevin

[michaelk]

Hard to say - Just the act of editing a symbol fixes the problem. But I'll try changing one or two of them to generic solids and see if the problem persists w/ those.

Thanks for the suggestion

michaelk

[michaelk]

I have a drawing open that is currently having the symbol visibility problem.

Three more clues discovered following Kevin's suggestion

7. I duplicated one of the 3D symbols and inserted the duplicate. The OIP thinks it is a 2D symbol.

8. When I went into the 3D edit portion of the symbol to convert to Generic Solids, it would not convert either of the two types of objects. (1 @ EAP and many nurbs curves)

9. After opening the 3D edit space, doing nothing effective, and exiting, the symbol is visible and the OIP correctly recognizes is as a 3D symbol.

Could it be, as Brugers and Kevin suggest, that "the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our symbols, but in our geometries, that they are underlings?"

[michaelk]

Bill

I've found I can force the problem to occur w/ the following steps:

1. Get the symbols to be visible.

2. Turn the classes the symbols live in off.

3. Close the file.

4. Reopen the file.

5. Turn the classes back to visible.

Symbols are now invisible.

michaelk

[michaelk]

Yep, that's it.

In the unlikely event that anyone has read this far down the thread...

Unless the problem is isolated to selective machines it should be reproducible w/ the file I posted earlier in this thread.

Open the drawing "Missing Symbols.vwx"

Set the classes Tension-Cable and Tension-Frame to invisible.

Save

Close

Reopen

Set the classes Tension-Cable and Tension-Frame to visible.

On my machine they do not become visible.

I hope I have some preference or class assignment set incorrectly and someone will see it and set me straight.

Thanks

michaelk

[brudgers]

Just out of curiosity, do you have any other objects in those classes?

If not, try adding some primatives non-symbol regular extrudes to those classes and see if the behaviour persists.

[Pat Stanford]

Michael,

Reproducible here as well. Please make sure you send the file in as a sample to bugsubmit. The link is at the top right of the page.

[michaelk]

Brugers

Good thought. I didn't have any other objects in those classes.

But non symbol objects (ie rectangles) behave normally while their classmate symbols go missing.

michaelk

[michaelk]

Pat

Thanks for the confirmation.

It's submitted.

[billtheia]

...Open the drawing "Missing Symbols.vwx"

Set the classes Tension-Cable and Tension-Frame to invisible.

Save

Close

Reopen

Set the classes Tension-Cable and Tension-Frame to visible.

On my machine they do not become visible...

I get the same result - symbols go invisible.

To get them to reappear:

Set classes to visible

Save

Close

Reopen

Voila

WTF?

Great job troubleshooting, michaelk

Knowing what to do now makes things a bit less frustrating BUT I sincerely hope that NNA fixes this in the next SP.

[michaelk]

Bill

Good job finding the fix.

I'm more confident, now that we can predictably cause and fix the problem by saving [WTF, indeed!], that it must be a bug.

When I submitted the bug, I asked for a confirmation email back that it really is a bug - or you and I are doing something stupid.

In the past they've confirmed bug submittals. So there is hope.

michaelk

[billtheia]

michaelk, You're the one who found the fix - I just reversed the problem behavior.

I'm going to submit a bug too, with example file. I'll ask for confirmation too.

brudgers, I have definitely had this problem in VW2008 & VW2009. I can't, however, get michaelk's file to repeat the VW2010 behavior in VW2009. I can, though, get another file to exhibit my problem with section VPs with the only fix being to edit the 3d component of the symbol.

I'd attached example files but it appears that we can't attach zip files and my example files are bigger than the 5MB limit (because VW files are such hogs.)

[Ozzie]

Bill - the original file this happened in; where did it come from?

Was it a new VW 2010 file or a file based on a template from a previous version of VW?

I have experienced a similar problem with 2D Plant Symbols going back to VW 2008 which was a nightmare

Just interested

[billtheia]

Ozzie, the template that I use dates back to VW2008 but I've imported and updated it in VW2009 and, now, VW2010. The template has design layers, classes, sheet layers (with SLVPs,) and title blocks all laid out. I open the template and start drawing, which "automatically" populates the sheets. Some of the symbols that I have trouble with date back to VW2008 and some were made in VW2010.

I suspect that NNA would recommend starting over with each version "in order to take full advantage of the new features in VW..." but that just isn't realistic. I shouldn't have to worry about file compatibilities between versions. I'm not talking about anything fancy in the symbols, most of them are hybrids with the 3d component made of extrudes. What's the point of sticking with one CAD application if I can't leverage work done in previous versions?

[Ozzie]

I've had this problem on and off since VW2008[/Quote]

same but here mainly with Plants - back in 2008 a plant symbol would disappear - in Edit the geoemetry was off in what I called whoop whoop land - not centred at x=0 y=0 any more

I understand some said it was caused by reset origin, then rotate plan etc

some I think had issues with Sheet layer Viewports moving

Just returned from holidays and opened a file in 2010 that came from 2009 - the template came from VW 12 and my plants had disappeared - Edit fixes them

Happened in another file before Christmas too

The template has design layers, classes, sheet layers (with SLVPs,) and title blocks all laid out. I open the template and start drawing, which "automatically" populates the sheets. Some of the symbols that I have trouble with date back to VW2008 and some were made in VW2010.

same

I suspect that NNA would recommend starting over with each version "in order to take full advantage of the new features in VW

it would be good if NNA could let us know what the heck is really going on!!

and could that perhaps mean in future a tool that could help update correctly resources, templates, standards

the situation is not tenable

it is ok to submit bugs, have wishes etc and so many help fix and improve VW

If this and or similar has been going on through 3 versions now; NNA should let us know what is going on

Nuff said

[Ozzie]

BTW - you probably know this - if you open a VW file with a text editor the VW version is at the beginning

[brudgers]

Just to be clear, I was able to directly create the problem in VW2008.

[Ozzie]

No doubt

Why still use it?

[brudgers]

On the one hand money.

On the other, problems such as this persist in the current version.

[billtheia]

BTW - you probably know this - if you open a VW file with a text editor the VW version is at the beginning

Nope, I didn't know that.

On the one hand money.

On the other, problems such as this persist in the current version.

Money...I suppose but with NNA changing to an annual release cycle "so that we can reliably make plans for our CAD budgets," I can only assume that VW is making MORE money for them than it has in the past. (I didn't have a CAD budget, BTW.)

I know that no software is bug-free and I don't expect it to be. BUT I do expect the bugs to be worked on and eliminated over time. Seem to me that 3 versions is a bit long for a bug to persist, especially when the 3d engine changed along the way.