Who has need for Live Sync with both Blender and D5 Render?

[MattWhite]

I would love to see Live sync with both Blender and D5 Render.  Blender and D5 render have become my go to applications for Rendering, and It gets tiresome to constantly re-export a model from VW and than re-import / update it in Blender and D5 Render.   It usually takes me a number of tries to to get the bugs out off the model.  I just a long process which could be abbreviated with Live Sync.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

When you say Live Sync, do you mean like the "Send to C4D" command.

[bcd]

This sound's like something Lee,  @LDraminski would be interested in.

ldraminski@vectorworks.net

 

[Dave Donley]

5 hours ago, MattWhite said:

I would love to see Live sync with both Blender and D5 Render.  Blender and D5 render have become my go to applications for Rendering, and It gets tiresome to constantly re-export a model from VW and than re-import / update it in Blender and D5 Render.   It usually takes me a number of tries to to get the bugs out off the model.  I just a long process which could be abbreviated with Live Sync.

 

What file formats are you using to get the Vectorworks model into these?

 

[zoomer]

For VW export to Blender, it works usually best with FBX.

(I think FBX export was always pretty much identical in quality than C4D export,

for C4D, Unreal or Twinmotion)

 

But I use more and more IFC for import in Blender(BIM).

That is useful if you do not already have done all Rendering setup in VW

or want need to do that in the target App anyway.

 

And hope in the future for a Speckle exchange.

[zoomer]

BTW,

 

I think in the near future, the Export Format of choice for VW to 3D Render Apps

will be USD of course.

 

And the optimum for now would be a VW to Blender Exchange like that

for C4D or Datasmith.

[LDraminski]

@matt thank you for this information.  It would be worth an ask directly to D5.  

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Back to the original question of a Live Sync, which I now gather does mean like the C4D export.  

Various exports aside, a direct link to CINEMA 4D was not driven by either VW or C4D, it was driven by Nemetschek.  It was possible because they had access to both companies source code.   The fact that both were Solid Modellers and surface modellers made things relatively easy.  It took about two weeks to implement the "Send to C4D" command even with access to each products source code.  You can still duplicate the Send to C4D command (except for materials) with DXF.

 

To the point, there is no money in it for either VW or Blender or any other 3D system other than C4D.  It would take a lot of time, legal paperwork, proprietary speak, etc. to make it happen.

 

Having said that, anyone competing against VW and C4D with Blender, Rhino etc., are at a disadvantage.

 

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Having said that, anyone competing against VW and C4D with Blender, Rhino etc., are at a disadvantage.

 

At least we have Datasmith exchange,

which required some effort for Epic and VW.

 

Maybe similar for Enscape and Lumen exchange,

(where Enscape is no standalone App and lives within VW ?)

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

3 minutes ago, zoomer said:

At least we have Datasmith exchange,

Yes, the world is moving quickly, thankfully I am no longer in the mix.

 

That is the other thing about C4D, direct import into Twinmotion.  I don't know if you useVW/C4D, but for me they are a single application.   Normally, it is VW to C4D, but some jobs in the past I went back and forth between them as a single application for weeks.  Build what I want in one, send to C4D to add something and then perhaps bring the whole package back to VW, add something, etc.  

But, it is not written down anywhere how that works, but it does.

 

regards...Paul

[Jeff Prince]

@zoomer doesn't it seem Vectorworks w/C4D is the one at a disadvantage here with regards to being connected to a greater ecosystem of modeling and rendering?

 

Modelers like Blender, Sketchup, and Rhino have many rendering engines they support and integrate with.

Where those of us who model in Vectorworks have fewer choices and more difficult workflows when we are required by client/collaborators to move our work into other software environments.

 

Exports like: Vectorworks to Sketchup?  Vectorworks to ArchiCAD?  far from seamless.  Lots of export formats kick out 3D only, leaving textures behind.  That's kinda painful.

 

It's still not flawless moving from Vectorworks into Twinmotion, which has sync and support from both vendors, yet fails on many fronts.  It's getting better, but still...

I can see why several of my Vectorworks architects still use Sketchup for their conceptual work.

[zoomer]

28 minutes ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

I don't know if you useVW/C4D,

 

I used VW with C4D for about a decade nearly exclusively.

Until I stopped upgrading when C4D went subscription.

And the last job with VW 2022 (?) +C4D R21, I could no more

get exchange to work on Windows, while it worked on Mac.

 

(But at that time I preferred to work on the bigger PC vs the M1 Mini

and switching between PC and Mac just for Exchange was a nightmare)

 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

1 minute ago, zoomer said:

I used VW with C4D for about a decade nearly exclusively.

I sort of felt that you had skills beyond the norm, but you have never said what you do?  What is your area of expertise?

[zoomer]

I typically do 3D modeling and architectural visualization.

But it got a bigger BIM the last few years.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Any Animation?  Although retired for twenty years I make movies pro bono with other retirees.  I should say I did make movies.  I am 70 and hanging it up.

The last project lasted nearly fives years and had 12 episodes.

I joined the forum to help promote NURBS modelling, but I think that dog want hunt anymore.

 

The time of wine is now upon us.

 

regards....Paul

 

 

[zoomer]

35 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Exports like: Vectorworks to Sketchup?  Vectorworks to ArchiCAD?  far from seamless.

 

Pity.

 

I always thought IFC would solve this.

I hope USD will finally do it for the 3D Apps.

 

 

38 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

Modelers like Blender, Sketchup, and Rhino have many rendering engines they support and integrate with.

 

In the past, C4D Renderer (or even RW in VW) was always more than ok for my clients.

I personally preferred Modo's Renderer or had VRAY for both.

But at the time VW C4D Exchange finally worked, that workflow was far more helpful

than exports.

 

I think since a few years, beside C4D (+VRAY) VW has quite a few (real time)Renderer

options via Exchange.

 

[zoomer]

2 minutes ago, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Any Animation?

 

A few but I avoided them because of render times and various other reasons.

[zoomer]

52 minutes ago, jeff prince said:

It's still not flawless moving from Vectorworks into Twinmotion, which has sync and support from both vendors, yet fails on many fronts.  It's getting better, but still...

 

I haven't tested for some time but I hoped it would work reliably meanwhile.

 

The reason why I think real time renderers are the future and offline renderers

like C4D physical renderer are deprecated, for is not so much about real time.

I could live well with 15-20 min render times per camera with reliable C4D

"render takes" batch rendering over night.

It is more that these game engines and real time renderers can even handle

thousands of plants and such things.

Try to work with or render with thousands instances of 40 types of e.g.

Laubwerk Plants in VW or C4D 🙂

[Jeff Prince]

59 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

I haven't tested for some time but I hoped it would work reliably meanwhile.

 

The reason why I think real time renderers are the future and offline renderers

like C4D physical renderer are deprecated, for is not so much about real time.

I could live well with 15-20 min render times per camera with reliable C4D

"render takes" batch rendering over night.

It is more that these game engines and real time renderers can even handle

thousands of plants and such things.

Try to work with or render with thousands instances of 40 types of e.g.

Laubwerk Plants in VW or C4D 🙂

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.  I see architects constantly improving their landscape renderings without really know much about landscape plants.  They can easily paint a random collection of plants, shrubs, and even weeds and grasses using a 3D brush you simply drag across the screen for most of the temperate world.  I used to tell architects that buildings are easy, landscape visualizations are where the challenge is... but that is changing rapidly.

 

Bringing it back to where this all stated...

Blender is evolving so rapidly and in so many directions, it sure would be nice for a clean workflow between VWX and Blender (& Rhino).  There are things you can do in those packages to enhance the work made in Vectorworks, but will never be developed for Vectorworks.   Like who is ever going to create a procedural alleyway generator for Vectorworks?

 

Someone did for Blender, and that is a niche within a niche.  The amount of more universally useful stuff out there is mind boggling.

 

 

 

The Rhino / Grasshopper community is generating tons of useful stuff too.

Random terrain generators, terrain from DEMs/raster images, excellent slope analysis, solar analysis, etc, etc, etc...

I was farting around with Rhino earlier this year after a very long hiatus.  I'll probably have to get on board with it rapidly if I'm selected for a certain project in the the Middle East, as it is the primary conceptual design tool shared amongst the 12 studios involved 🙂

 

Just more reasons to connect Vectorworks to the larger ecosystem...

[MattWhite]

16 hours ago, Dave Donley said:

 

What file formats are you using to get the Vectorworks model into these?

 

I export to FBX, and it works pretty well in both programs.

 

[zoomer]

10 hours ago, MattWhite said:

I export to FBX, and it works pretty well in both programs.

 

And I just realized ....

in TM, with a FBX import, you also have the "2-rotating arrow" symbol to "update"

your import 🙂

Just in a hidden way like in Apple Mail when you have to mouse over a hidden area

to check if a Mail has attachments or not that you could save ....

 

But that FBX may not help the thread starter in VW to Blender (?)

I am not experienced in Blender if there any "reference"-like modes that would allow

an exchange ?

(Usually Apps, like with IFC may swap UUIDs of Elements or Materials which will

counteract your over-writings in the target App.

[MattWhite]

On 8/2/2023 at 2:29 PM, VIRTUALENVIRONS said:

Back to the original question of a Live Sync, which I now gather does mean like the C4D export.  

Various exports aside, a direct link to CINEMA 4D was not driven by either VW or C4D, it was driven by Nemetschek.  It was possible because they had access to both companies source code.   The fact that both were Solid Modellers and surface modellers made things relatively easy.  It took about two weeks to implement the "Send to C4D" command even with access to each products source code.  You can still duplicate the Send to C4D command (except for materials) with DXF.

 

To the point, there is no money in it for either VW or Blender or any other 3D system other than C4D.  It would take a lot of time, legal paperwork, proprietary speak, etc. to make it happen.

 

Having said that, anyone competing against VW and C4D with Blender, Rhino etc., are at a disadvantage.

 

Yes. I mean direct link.  Blender would be nice to have, but the one I really want to see is Direct Link between D5 Render and Vectorworks. I tried Direct Link Datasmith VW to Twinmotion and liked it, but the company I work for chose to go with D5 Render, so now I miss VW direct link.   And all to the legal and time issues in developing a Direct Link aside. D5 make a Live Link for ArchiCAD, by Graphisoft, and Graphisoft is held be Nemetschek. So someone has found a way to step through these hoops before.  

[MattWhite]

On 8/2/2023 at 1:58 PM, LDraminski said:

@matt thank you for this information.  It would be worth an ask directly to D5.  

Thanks, I will work on that. It's in their line up of proposed projects. So if they get enough likes on it, they may push it into development.   

[Ross Harris]

I had a zoom call with d5 a couple of years back. Basically they weren't prioritising vw due to market share, and once the big fish were done, they'd review their position on it. A pity, cos 2.5 looks amazing.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Ross Harris

[Kokhoveniers]

Just wanna give an update on this, I spoke with someone from D5 and they told me that they are in the testing fase for a live sync pluging for Vectorworks!

[zoomer]

On 4/23/2024 at 12:25 PM, Kokhoveniers said:

Just wanna give an update on this, I spoke with someone from D5 and they told me that they are in the testing fase for a live sync pluging for Vectorworks!

 

That is good news.

 

I saw the video of latest D5 release and it looks great.

I always thought it would be just a Rendere like VRAY or Corona.

But realized now that is a complete real time render solution like

Twinmotion, Enscape, Lumion, .....

 

And it supports Blender !

(But so far have not looked how deep that support or exchange

will go in reality)

 

Unfortunately I also realized that D5 is Windows only !?

Bummer.