VW geometry can not be subdivided in Blender (for displacement mapping)

[frv]

Hi, I am playing with the idea to go Blender. I am happy using Cinema4D /Coronarender apart from the extra and ever rising costs. 

 

I hear from a co-worker that Blender does not do displacement mapping or subdivisoins with imported VW geomatry no matter what. If displacement mapping is not possible than Blender won't do it for me.

 

Any ideas, is this true or is there a fix ?

best Francois

[EAlexander]

I use displacement on VW geometry in Cinema all the time with no issue. Often I use the remapper to clean up and subdivide it into more of a grid layout then triangles everywhere. 

 

I can't see why it wouldn't work in Blender as well, but I'm not a power user there. Why not just try some simple tests? Will cost you nothing but your time. 

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Not a Blender user, but it seems odd that the geometry would affect anything.

It appears Blender is a Mesh modeller.  It might have to do with how Blender sees imported origins, etc.  Blender may be doing the displacement somewhere other than where you are looking or at a microscopic level.

 

How Vectorworks tessellates geometry for export is not consistent with all objects.

 

If I may ask, what is your export process.  NURBS or Extrusions, DFX or IGES, etc.

 

[Jeff Prince]

14 hours ago, frv said:

 

I hear from a co-worker that Blender does not do displacement mapping or subdivisoins with imported VW geomatry no matter what. If displacement mapping is not possible then Blender won't do it for me.

I just dabble in Blender, but it does displacement mapping natively and can host several rendering engines with that feature too.

 

Setting up materials is very robust and different from Vectorworks.  Geometry can be formed and manipulated in ways not possible in Vectorworks, see Mobius Strip discussion on this forum for instance, easily and quickly done in Blender.

 

Just take some time doing tutorial research and I’m sure you will find it can completely replace or compliment what you are using now.  The price is certainly right and the community of helpful users is huge.

[frv]

I export in fbx and that works great for import in to Blender. But it seems impossible to have any kind of displacement. I can try to convert VW geometry in to another format like subdivisions or 3D polygons. Haven't tried that yet.

 

There is no doubt that Blender can just model anything really. But we have IFC bim models made in VW and I don't plan to redo all that in Blender just to render.

 

 I am afraid my co-worker is right about Blender not working with VW geometry. In Cinema4D there are no issuses at all.

 

I also noticed there are almost no Blender users here at the VW forum and most likely for good reason. Its a pity since Graswald and Maxtree also do Blender very well. No need to pay Cinema and Coronarender anymore just to have great vegatation. But if Blender creates a lot of extra work and hassle with VW geometry than I have to pass.

[VIRTUALENVIRONS]

Seems like you have a good handle on your problem.  As you suggested, I think I would try converting your VW model into something more similar to Blenders format (Mesh) and see what happens.  

Something you could look at in Blender (if it can do this), is check your surface normals, Back Face culling.   VW can invert normals very quickly.  If your surfaces normals are reversed, but you can't see it, it may be a factor.

 

Good luck.

[Jeff Prince]

47 minutes ago, frv said:

There is no doubt that Blender can just model anything really. But we have IFC bim models made in VW and I don't plan to redo all that in Blender just to render.

 

 I am afraid my co-worker is right about Blender not working with VW geometry. In Cinema4D there are no issuses at all.

 

I also noticed there are almost no Blender users here at the VW forum and most likely for good reason.

 

Yeah, I don't know if I would be so quick to assume your coworker is correct.

You can take a Vectorworks model built with walls, doors, windows, etc and bring them into Blender without any tricks or difficulty.  Even default library items like the VWX 3D cars come in textured correctly.

Remember, the number of people here on the forum is a fraction of the total users, you might get good VWX advice but you probably aren't going to get the best Rhino or Blender support since some folks have a strong bias against them.  You get all kinds of armchair "experts" who haven't even installed the programs giving advice.

 

Anyhow, I opened an old VWX BIM project and imported it into Blender in under a minute...

Does your coworker actually know how to use Blender?

It's a complicated looking program at first, but like anything, some education helps.

Like the old version of Twinmotion, Collada import is your friend here.

 

 

 

 

[EAlexander]

I can see displacement in a texture carried over from VW not working properly. You probably need to rebuild or tweak that texture. I don't use native VW textures, so not sure about that. 

[bcd]

Look up Blender's Subdivision surface modifer

[frv]

No problem getting VW models in Blender at all. The problem is that Blender for some reason we can't figure out simply refuses to displace VW geometry, no matter how simple. Displacement and subdivion are a must have in Archviz texture mapping so if VW and Blender are incompatible I will go Unreal or stay at C4D/Corona.

 

Thanks though for the tips. I will try the normals. I had that once in C4D as well. I myself am not a Blender user but would like to be. So I will check again with my co-worker. He is fluent with Blender and VW and tried already for quit a while.

 

We are aware of Blenders subdivision surface modifier. The problem is not the VW texture or material. A Blender material with displacement on a simple plane out of VW next to a Blender plane show only the Blender plane rendered with properly applied displacement.......

Edited July 6, 2023 by frv

[EAlexander]

How odd. Sounds like a Normals issue, but I'll try this once I'm back at my desk. 

[zoomer]

6 hours ago, frv said:

But we have IFC bim models made in VW and I don't plan to redo all that in Blender just to render.

 

Search for and load the BlenderBIM AddOn.

Blender with BlenderBIM for me is one of the best IFC Viewers

(Or even an IFC Content Creation Suite)

and opening VW IFC Files works great.

You should try.

 

Beside,

I did not try any Displacement Shaders in Blender so far,

but my VW FBX Exports, or now BlenderBIM IFC imports looked always

very reasonable. I really can't imagine what the problem could be with

FBX exports from VW or IFC imports.

 

It's just Blender Meshes.

No clue what could prevent their Faces from Tessellation, SubD, ... ?

Maybe there is just a current bug in Blender (?),

try different Blender versions or file a support request with your demo file.

Same for BlenderBIM, report if you have a problem.

If there is a bug they will fix it.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by zoomer

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, frv said:

No problem getting VW models in Blender at all. The problem is that Blender for some reason we can't figure out simply refuses to displace VW geometry, no matter how simple. Displacement and subdivion are a must have in Archviz texture mapping so if VW and Blender are incompatible I will go Unreal or stay at C4D/Corona.

 

Thanks though for the tips. I will try the normals. I had that once in C4D as well. I myself am not a Blender user but would like to be. So I will check again with my co-worker. He is fluent with Blender and VW and tried already for quit a while.

 

We are aware of Blenders subdivision surface modifier. The problem is not the VW texture or material. A Blender material with displacement on a simple plane out of VW next to a Blender plane show only the Blender plane rendered with properly applied displacement.......

 

It will do displacement, adding detail via subdivision, and all the other sophisticated stuff other visualization software does.

The trick is you need to know what buttons to push.  If your coworker is fluent with Blender, this should not be a problem.

 

How do I know this?  I just learned how to do all of it today based on your question during a break from the grind.  During the same time since I posted my house example.... I had lunch, went to the bikeshop to source some parts, and the auto shop to buy a window regulator.

It's not hard if I can do it that quick 🙂

 

I tested this by importing one of my VWX material experiments and started recreating the material behavior for bump & displacement within Blender.

 

Blender's subdivision and bump controls are actually very nice.  I'm not see what the issue is.  Perhaps your coworker can explain where the specific difficulty is?

 

Here's my old VWX material experiment which I based today's learning on....

 

Geometry imported from Vectorworks.  Simple shapes with a subdivision modifier applied to the "puffy fabric" surface which is just a flat plane.

 

And the result created by adding a displacement modifier to the texture and rendering it in Cycles within Blender.

What's not to love?  Where is the problem?

 

 

[frv]

Thanks Jeff, seems to be very easy. Your plane though looks as if its bevelled or rounded or subdived in VW.

 

I will pass your experiment on to my co-worker and will dive in to it myself as well. I think my co-worker could not get it to work for masonry/bricks. Anyhow, to be continued...

 

[Jeff Prince]

13 minutes ago, frv said:

Thanks Jeff, seems to be very easy. Your plane though looks as if its bevelled or rounded or subdived in VW.

 

 

Glad it helped.

The geometry is not bevelled or subdivided in VW, that was done in Blender.

You can see my VWX geometry is an extruded rectangle (wood texture), a rectangular NURBS surface (puffy displacement material), and a cylinder primitive in the discussion I lined too...