Construction Documents from a 3D Model - How much information to model?

[MaltbyDesign]

By the way, thanks to everyone for contributing to this discussion. This is the sort of exchange of ideas I was hoping for.

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, MaltbyDesign said:

@Tom W. If the top of your finished floor is 0.0, you then would have to offset the bottoms of your walls to sit on the subfloor/slab. I guess it's a trade off. 

I just had a thought; If you set 0,0 to the top of subfloor/slab and want skirting boards, fixtures and fittings to sit on top of the finished floor could you set up a fixture and fitting layer that is offset from zero by the thickness of the flooring? So when you insert furniture, millwork, etc. it is at the right elevation to allow for the finished floor thickness.

Thanks @MaltbyDesign but the hypothetical situation I'm proposing is that you have a number of different finish floor heights within the same storey. So the top of the subfloor is 0,0 but because you have solid oak boards in some rooms the FFL there is +1". Then in the bathroom + kitchen you have floor tiles + here the FFL is +3/4". Then in the living room you've got carpet which has a FFL of say 3/8" (not sure why I've gone imperial here). So the furniture, millwork, etc would be at different elevations in each of these different areas. I was wondering how people dealt with this scenario or whether they just always work things so that the FFL is the same throughout the whole storey. Then you can have a layer for the subfloor + layer for the top of the finish floor + all's fine. That's why I wondered whether if you are using Stories you could set up a 'oak floor' level, a 'floor tile' level, a 'carpet level', etc. then you can assign objects to the appropriate level depending on the floor in each room. But I just need to try it out for myself + see what best way to do it is! It was a bit of a hypothetical question as most often I do have the same FFL throughout... Or even have no separate floor finish at all + just have a single slab throughout

Edited March 12, 2021 by Tom W.

[MaltbyDesign]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

Thanks @MaltbyDesign but the hypothetical situation I'm proposing is that you have a number of different finish floor heights within the same storey. So the top of the subfloor is 0,0 but because you have solid oak boards in some rooms the FFL there is +1". Then in the bathroom + kitchen you have floor tiles + here the FFL is +3/4". Then in the living room you've got carpet which has a FFL of say 3/8" (not sure why I've gone imperial here). So the furniture, millwork, etc would be at different elevations in each of these different areas. I was wondering how people dealt with this scenario or whether they just always work things so that the FFL is the same throughout the whole storey. Then you can have a layer for the subfloor + layer for the top of the finish floor + all's fine. That's why I wondered whether if you are using Stories you could set up a 'oak floor' level, a 'floor tile' level, a 'carpet level', etc. then you can assign objects to the appropriate level depending on the floor in each room. But I just need to try it out for myself + see what best way to do it is! It was a bit of a hypothetical question as most often I do have the same FFL throughout... Or even have no separate floor finish at all + just have a single slab throughout

@Tom W. I see what you're saying. What about having a different fixture and fitting layer for different floor finish thicknesses in a project? One for spaces with hardwood, with a 1" bottom offset; one for spaces with tile (bathroom and/or kitchen), with a 3/4" bottom offset; one for spaces with carpet, with a 3/8" bottom offset, etc. So each layer becomes a container for the various fixtures and fittings associated with a spaces floor finish. Is that too over the top?

 

BTW, I'm okay with imperial. In Canada, I think the only people using metric are those doing work for the government. 

[Tom W.]

48 minutes ago, MaltbyDesign said:

@Tom W. I see what you're saying. What about having a different fixture and fitting layer for different floor finish thicknesses in a project? One for spaces with hardwood, with a 1" bottom offset; one for spaces with tile (bathroom and/or kitchen), with a 3/4" bottom offset; one for spaces with carpet, with a 3/8" bottom offset, etc. So each layer becomes a container for the various fixtures and fittings associated with a spaces floor finish. Is that too over the top?

I agree, this is exactly what I'm saying, but using story levels rather than design layers

 

 

[MaltbyDesign]

@Tom W. I hadn't thought of that. I don't see why not. Either way would work, I think, depending on whether one models using storeys or design layers.

[michaelk]

On 3/10/2021 at 5:52 PM, Kevin K said:

Notice I even created individual mission style barrel tiles for the roofing. Probably a bit much for most here 🙂 I have two versions for the 3d Mission Tiles....one, as I used on this residence, is the down & dirty simpler methodology. From 6 feet away you would not really notice the difference as opposed to using the 'real deal' individual Roof Tiles.

 

What kind of object are you using in your surface arrays for mission tile?  I've tried several different kinds of objects (sweeps, extrudes, nurbs curves), but on anything but a very small roof the file slows to a crawl 🙂 .

[Kevin K]

@michaelk Normally I just use a symbol of one 3d barrel tile....then extract the surface of a roof, play with the numbers a bit and it happens pretty fast. That said if you have a LOT of square footage of roofing, it will slow down a bit.

 

I attached a 2020 file with the 3d barrel tile symbol .

It is also shown as a surface array on a small portion of a roof face.  

 

In this case, because the barrel tile symbol has a bit of concrete in the end of the barrel tile, as often happens in real life, you need to tweak the surface array settings so the first tile on the low slope of the roof shows that small section of concrete.

If you open the file you will note those settings on the OIP.

 

As I had previously mentioned, this is bit above and beyond normal modeling. :-)

 

Here is a screenshot of what it looks like in Open GL.  Maybe download the attached VW  file if you want to mess with it.

 

 

 

 

BARREL TILE SURFACE ARRAY.vwx.zip

[michaelk]

Aha.  Shells.  I'll give that a try.  Thanks!

 

Have you ever tried modeling the bottom piece to get the profile on the eave edge?

[Kevin K]

I have indeed.  🙂

This was just a basic response to your inquiry.

[RuiSantos___]

On 3/11/2021 at 1:52 AM, Kevin K said:

@Tom W. Based upon your requests above, I can respond generally. Hard to list every aspect of my workflow.

You may be sorry you asked 🙂

Remember, this is just my approach and others will definitely have theirs -)

Note my comments and screenshots below attempting to touch upon your inquiries.

** Screenshots are very low resolution, sorry, but this is about intent and not especially about fabulous renderings :-). Just used Opel GL.

I used a flat roofed example for my comments.

 

- I 3d model  about everything reasonable. 

Here is a basic 3d Model.

 

 

Notice I even created individual mission style barrel tiles for the roofing. Probably a bit much for most here 🙂 I have two versions for the 3d Mission Tiles....one, as I used on this residence, is the down & dirty simpler methodology. From 6 feet away you would not really notice the difference as opposed to using the 'real deal' individual Roof Tiles.

Sounds scary but It wasn't too arduous. Just created a 3d symbol for one of the roof tiles, then used

the 'surface array' option to apply to each roof face.  I imagine this would seem like madness to take the time to model

roof tiles, but the implied Spanish barrel roof tile texture included in VW resources are just too flat looking for my taste. They need a bit more dimension. Again, the 3d roof tiles will show up in the sections....sort of hard to fake those tiles on an angled wall in the annotations.  Just easier to make them in 3d. I also 3d modeled the rafter tails.

 

 

 

 

Items I do not usually, (though sometimes), 3d model:

*Foundation Elements ( These I do annotate in the Sections)

* Structural parts of a wall interiors, like 2x studs, metal studs, etc. 

 

Items I do 3d model:

* I Always try to create a 3d Site Model, usually acquired  from a .dwg file data from a surveyor.

*Hardscape items, like slabs, walkways, etc.

*All interior items, like countertops, cabinetry, kitchen stuff, etc.

* Floor Framing and Roof framing members.  I do not normally just use an overall 'slab' thickness.  Meaning

   I create the actual joists, subfloor, sheetrock, and roof rafters, etc in 3d. The main reason for this is that they will all show up in the Sections,

   as opposed having to annotate the bejesus out of the Sections to show all of these individual members.

 

 

 

Here is a typical Section from this Project:  Note the pesky roof tiles grayed beyond the section cut 🙂

 

This may not have addressed all you had asked about, but it does put a dent in it 🙂

 

 

 

Please, can someone (specially the author) do some tutorial on how to make these roofs, with a proper roof tile and structure?