Duplicated contour line labels are a problem

[Jeff Prince]

I just turned on the labels for my site model.  There are over 20 labels stacked on top of each other in several locations.  When I say stacked on top of each other, they literally share the same handle point and can not be differentiated when you zoom in very close.  Why does this happen and how is it prevented?

[bgoff]

1) what was the site model origin data?

2) is there duplicate geometry?

3) could you post the file or if that is not possible could you PM me the file?

 

There could be a number of things that cause this, but without seeing the file and understanding how it was generated it is just a shot in the dark.

 

As for the labels you can select the site model and use the second mode of the reshape tool to move, delete or add labels.

[Jeff Prince]

@bgoff thanks for the reply.

 

1. DXF contours from point cloud software

2. Not that I am aware of

3. The file is over 20 MB just for the site model.  What is the best way to share it?

 

I deleted over 100 duplicate labels yesterday.  When I opened the file this morning, they are back.  Huge wasted effort 😞

Thanks for any insights.

[Jeff Prince]

@bgoff I have attempted to attached the site model to this post.  Hopefully it works.

site model trouble.vwx

[Benson Shaw]

Certain site model edits, maybe any site model edit, causes the contour elevation labels to duplicate. Maybe simply opening the edit contours dialog?  Sorry i can’t remember the specific trigger(s). I will try to test. 

 

regarding delete then finding them regenerated at reopen. - was there a Save action? did dupe labels propagate in both exist and proposed?  The dupes are vexing (vextorworks!)

 

-B

[Jeff Prince]

@Benson Shaw I saved the file after deleting contour labels.  Everything looked correct and I closed the file.  The labels magically appeared upon reopening the file.  Vextorworks, Vectorbreaks, Vectorfails.... I’ve been seeing a lot of that lately 😞

I’m losing faith with a lot of these tools and tech support.  Spent a few hours building hardscape styles today while I wait for this contour issue to resolve and because I still haven’t received an explanation for my alpha channel issues here:

 

Found all kinds of workflow fails with the hardscape styles, like textures changing their mapping by themselves.  It’s getting to the point where I’m wondering why I’m investing so much time in this platform.  Landscape BIM is not trustworthy in Vectorworks and becoming a vast time suck.  Kind of making the case for returning to a 2D CAD approach to stay profitable 😞  when stuff works, it’s fun and excellent.  Unfortunately, these victories are vastly outnumbered by the fails in the past few months.

 

[Jeff Prince]

...and the problems continue to go unresolved.

[axhake]

do you still have the DXF file you used to create your site model from?

 

[Jeff Prince]

5 hours ago, axhake said:

do you still have the DXF file you used to create your site model from?

 

Yes.

[axhake]

Is it possible to upload so I can re-create from your source data, have had issues myself with creating site models and have some time to spare so can have a look 

 

[Jeff Prince]

@axhake thanks.  The file is uploaded earlier in the thread and the source data is inside the site model.

[Frederic_Vbc]

Same problem as Jeff for the contour Labels stacking up.

• My Source Data are nice and clean 3D poly (Low vertex count and 3D Data Validated)
• Recreate from source data doesn't change anything

D

[Jeff Prince]

@Frederic_Vbc I can't get Vectorworks to respond to this 😞

It's a big problem!

[Frederic_Vbc]

@jeff prince I've finally been able to fix the issue !

Problem was coming from the source data... Even-though I thought I did a good job at having clean data input.

Previous workflow

• Contour imported from surveyor
• Polyline simplified (50mm deviation) and converted to 3D poly
• Run 'Validate 3D data' to spot and fix eventual overlap
• Create site model from source Data

Site model looks good and was fast to generate (good sign). Everything looks fine until issues with contour labels...

 

BUT after careful analysis of source data it appeared that some 3D poly vertex were not on the same elevation (100mm difference, very hard to see, specially with hundreds of contour lines). Thus imported surveyor 3D data were the problem.

 

Fix

• Convert 3D poly to contour lines (select all 3D poly/Landmark/Create object from shape/Site modifier/Contour). Leave elevation to 0.
  The faulty 3D poly will now appear as a contour (or pad) with a slope. select them all (Select similar Tool) and set slope to none.
• Convert the contour lines back to 3D poly.

Now you have nice 3D poly with all vertex on same levels.

 

This will be my typical workflow for now on as 'The Validate 3D Data' only is not enough.

 

EDIT

Problems are back. Playing with site modifiers and grading limit back and forth are causing contour labels to go crazy. And once it's started nothing can fix it (to my knowledge).

Workaround

Keep a copy of your site model (e.g. another layer, turned off). Save you Site Model settings.

Once you are done with your Site Modifiers (and your contours labels are all messed up), use the 'original' copy to replace the messed up Site Model.
Apply your saved setting and it should be fine now. (The problems start to appear when you play with modifiers back and forth. Not when initially applied)

Edited September 1, 2020 by Frederic_Vbc
Update

[Jeff Prince]

Should I start planning the 2 year anniversary of this problem still not being fixed?

 

Still happening, even in 2022 😞

[Frederic_Vbc]

@jeff prince Yes I think it is a reasonable call.

There are two things that I do to minimize the issue :

• I keep an original and clean copy of the site model to use once I am done with my modifications (refer to my workaround just above)
• I try to avoid setting up a modifier on a a contour line (e.g. top of retaining wall site modifier on 16200 when my contours are every 200mm) unless it is from the Tool Set 'Site Modifier Tools'

I hope it helps

[Jeff Prince]

I'm guessing this issue will still happen in 2023....

Any news if this has been fixed?

[Frederic_Vbc]

Well I can't say that I have experienced (this) issue so far. They have made some critical improvement with the site model and the modifiers ! And the ability to realign contours under Grade limits should fix that.

[Jeff Prince]

Just tested in 2023 with a variety of site models, still a problem.

[Frederic_Vbc]

Yep I confirmed, problem is back ! Weird Looks like a speacial gift from SP1

@administrator Could someone look at it please, the problem exist since 2020 !

[Minna]

Oh dear... I came here to look solution to this problem...  I use 2023 version ...

[Benson Shaw]

@Minna  I think the workaround requires several things:

A.  Place all your site modifiers on layer(s) separate from the DTM.

B.  Make a copy of the existing DTM data

C.  Create a new DTM from this data on a new, blank Design Layer.

 

Lastly, use the DTM settings to apply all the site mods layers  to the new DTM, and update the new DTM. If terrain and contour labels are as expected, delete the original DTM (or, better, the orig DTM layer assuming no other objects present on that layer).  
 

Any further site mod edits or addition of new site mods will likely create duplicate contour labels. If so, repeat above. 
 

hope this works for you. 
 

-B

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, Benson Shaw said:

@Minna  I think the workaround requires several things:

A.  Place all your site modifiers on layer(s) separate from the DTM.

B.  Make a copy of the existing DTM data

C.  Create a new DTM from this data on a new, blank Design Layer.

 

Lastly, use the DTM settings to apply all the site mods layers  to the new DTM, and update the new DTM. If terrain and contour labels are as expected, delete the original DTM (or, better, the orig DTM layer assuming no other objects present on that layer).  
 

Any further site mod edits or addition of new site mods will likely create duplicate contour labels. If so, repeat above. 
 

hope this works for you. 
 

-B

Unfortunately, that trick doesn’t work.  The second you hit the update button to refresh a texture or graphic mode of the site model, the duplicates will come back even though the site model data has not changed.

 

This problem has been going on so long and Vectorworks doesn’t seem to be fixing it…. The only reliable way to label contours seems to be doing it manually with annotations in the viewport(s) unfortunately.

[Benson Shaw]

Doh!  Now I have to test AGAIN! Thought I made this work, once upon a time.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Benson Shaw
Speculation. AFK

[Frederic_Vbc]

The problem remains the same in 2023 sp7 unfortunately.
A small thing I wish I discovered way earlier: In the edit site model label position mode, if you click and drag you can select all the handles at the same time, then hit the delete key to start with a blank slate. Then just add the label where desired. I find this a lot less painful than having to click on every duplicate one by one.

 

Also, I discovered that if the 2D style is set to '2D contours (smoothed)' labels' handles are not showing properly. To fix the issue just switch to 2D style '2D contours'

Edited October 5, 2023 by Frederic_Vbc