halfcoupler Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I love to have my design layers sorted alphabetically, unregarded of their stacking order. But every time I open a file the sort order is the stacking order by default. Anyone knows if that can be changed ? Quote Link to comment
DBruhnke Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, halfcouple said: But every time I open a file the sort order is the stacking order by default. @halfcouple Not seeing this in VW 2020. If I change the sort, it remembers it thru the session. After a quit of the application, it reverts to sorting by the stacking order. Mac running OS 10.15.3 Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I am seeing there same as DBruhnke. OIP settings remain until VW is restarted. Quote Link to comment
halfcoupler Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 ok, thanks Pat and DBruhnke, thought that already, just wanted to be shure I haven't missed some kind of preferance setting. Stacking order as main sort criterium is a logical thing in architecture, as it results from the construction order. ( Can't build the roof before the basement ) But I wonder if anyone in the entertainment industry uses stacking orders at all, and what for ? For me design layers happen to be arbitrarily stacked by creation date, an alphabetically sorting makes it easyer for example to find a certatin truss layer and do changes on it. Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Perhaps the best work around is to change your stacking order so it matches your preferred alphabetical ordering. Especially if you do this in template files you will have a good start on what you need. Then you only will have to adjust layers that are added on the fly. Just hover over the stacking order column and the cursor will switch to kind of look like a bent sheet of paper. Click and drag each layer to the place in the stacking order you want. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted February 12, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 4:23 AM, halfcouple said: I love to have my design layers sorted alphabetically, unregarded of their stacking order. But every time I open a file the sort order is the stacking order by default. Anyone knows if that can be changed ? Not sure why you would want this as surely this would mean that the Stage layer would sit visually above the Truss layer? my layers are.... Trace - The layer I draw in and then tidy geometry to subsequent layers when I get a chance. Grid (House Rigging Points) Truss Sidelight Floor LX Stage Venue Groundplan/Imported Venue Just curious as to why you wouldn't want to apply a stacking order to your layers? Quote Link to comment
markdd Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, TomWhiteLight said: Just curious as to why you wouldn't want to apply a stacking order to your layers? I guess some people use layers as a way of grouping objects more expediently so that they can turn visibility on or off etc. and not necessarily geographically as you are describing. The stacking order of layers does not change if you sort them alphabetically, so I imagine this is more about locating them quickly, especially if you have more than just a few. Persnally, I think @halfcouplehas a good point. Once you make a change like this, then you would expect the document to retain it from one session to another until changed. Gets my vote! 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted February 12, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 12, 2020 Interesting, So it would be good to be able to create a 'Snapshot' of the way layers are stacked. Saved Views could do this? Or should this be a new function entirely? Let me know what you think and I can make an Enhancement Request. All the best Tom W Quote Link to comment
markdd Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Hi Tom Saved views doesn't save the sort order of the Navigation Palette, so just the ability to retain the sort order in the Nav. Palette and Organisation Dialog from one session to another would be helpful. Sounds more like a document preference...... 1 Quote Link to comment
halfcoupler Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 43 minutes ago, markdd said: Once you make a change like this, then you would expect the document to retain it from one session to another until changed I think that is precisely the point, unregarded how Layers are used. Agree to markdd , this should be a documents preferance, or better, VW should just "remember" the setting when restarted. I dont think it makes sense to have this as a store option in saved views too. 1 hour ago, TomWhiteLight said: Grid (House Rigging Points) Truss Sidelight Floor LX Stage Venue Groundplan/Imported Venue You are right, my approach to layers is a bit chaotic, often depending on which information is set to plan first. I often correct stacking orders first when I find out that things are covered by something unexpectedly in a viewport. I should rewiew my workflow to keep at least those parts correctly stacked, that are definitely known as on top of each other. A pre-definded template for that is the right way. But it is not always that simple,- for example, what is the stacking order of the detail layer that shows the scaffolding system for the audience, which ranges from floor to the roof of the venue ? Is it above or under the sidelights ? What if I position a followspot on it's own Layer since it exceeds the floor LX plan viewport with lots of empty space because it is 40 meters away from the stage,- located in the roof of the venue, is it above or under the truss layer, although it's wiring is shown on the floor cable plan ? And what about the additional tent behind the venue for backstage, is that above or under the scaffolding ? When I have 10 or more of these "undefinable layers" it is often useful to quickly locate and sort them simply by name and then do with them whatever I want, for example change their stacking order... 😀 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted February 12, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, halfcouple said: I dont think it makes sense to have this as a store option in saved views too. I think we could have a save layer order cache option in document preferences much like you have a save viewport cache with viewports. 1 Quote Link to comment
halfcoupler Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, TomWhiteLight said: I think we could have a save layer order cache option in document preferences much like you have a save viewport cache with viewports. That would be great ! 😀 😀 😀 Quote Link to comment
JMR Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 I concur with @halfcouple. I have 58 DL's, and for quick navigation and visibility control I always display them in alphabetical order and thus suffer from the unnecessary reverting to stacking order. I need to review the stacking order only when I want to control what's in front of what. Other than that I live with the alphabetical view. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted February 12, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 12, 2020 58 Wow! Just out of interest approximately how many classes do you use? Quote Link to comment
JMR Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 200? I think. Buildings are complex... 1 Quote Link to comment
DBruhnke Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, TomWhiteLight said: 58 Wow! @TomWhiteLight 58 is surprising? Damn... As Architects doing tenant interiors and base buildings, we have a tenant standard template start point with 50 Design Layers and 235 Classes. Many files get upward of 100 layers. Classes do not increase significantly over the life of a file. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee TomWhiteLight Posted February 12, 2020 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted February 12, 2020 My mistake It was a question for Spotlight users, large layer counts are rare. Quote Link to comment
halfcoupler Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 My Spotlight files have an average of 5-20 layers and 30-40 classes. Festival projects with 4-5 stages and/or venues would end up in 80 -100 Layers and 40-60 classes, but over the years I used to split these up in several smaller files and reference what I need into a masterfile. So, even Spotlight files can have a lot of layers, indeed. Glad to see I'm not the olny one who fights with bigger amounts of layers 😉 Quote Link to comment
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