Keeping text pt size constant when changing layer scale

[Wimads]

Hi all,

 

I am working on standardizing a template for the company I work at, for all our 2D drawings. I am running into an issue regarding layer scales and text size.

 

Most drawings we make are good with a 1:100 scale. Hence I set the standard design layer to a 1:100 scale, and use a 1:100 scale for viewports.

I want my text size to always appear 12pt when printed - and as long as layer scale and viewport scale are identical, this works great.

 

The problem occurs when changing the scale on an already existing drawing. Sometimes, while setting up a drawing, at a later point you find out for example 1:200 is more suitable.

My logic then tells me to scale both the layer and viewport to 1:200, to keep both scales identical so 12pt text remains 12pt text. However, the problem with an existing drawing is that any existing text in the design layer is also scaled from 12pt to 6pt in this scenario. I would like to prevent this from happening, meaning my text should be 12pt no matter any change in the layer scale. Is there any way to accomplish this?

[markdd]

There is an option in the Advanced tab of the viewport to scale the text by any factor you prefer. Will that sort out your problem?

[Wimads]

@markdd That is more of a workaround than a real solution. The problem is that all existing text is scaled to for example 6pt when the in the design layer scale is adjusted. Any new text created after scaling will still have the 12pt font size I want to specify as a standard for our company. Of course I could simply start using 6pt as the standard font size in that particular document to work around the problem, and then adjust by scaling the text in the viewport. But it is not really a good solution, considering not everyone in the company is equally handy with computers. Some people will simply leave the workaround and settle with the too small font for example. Additionally there will be frequently people working on documents that were created by other colleagues - so it is good to have a standard that works the same for every document, and not with a workaround for some of the documents that happen to be a different scale than 1:100.

 

[bc]

How about this:

With the design layer you wish to rescale active, right click in open area and select Active Layer Scale to arrive at the Layer Scale Dialog.

Here you can select your new scale preference and in the lower right corner, un-check the box "Scale Text".

Edited November 6, 2018 by bc

[Wimads]

38 minutes ago, bc said:

How about this:

With the design layer you wish to rescale active, right click in open area and select Active Layer Scale to arrive at the Layer Scale Dialog.

Here you can select your new scale preference and in the lower right corner, un-check the box "Scale Text".

 

Of course it is as simple as that! How did I miss that checkbox.. Thanks a lot!

 

 

EDIT: Or well, that was almost the complete answer... but as it turns out, that only works for normal text, but not for text inside symbols... But I guess for most projects that won't be a huge issue. By the time there are so many symbols it becomes a tedious task to adjust all of them, I would hope the right scale will have been determined already.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Wimads

[Jim Smith]

The protocol we have is "All Text In Annotation". While there are exceptions, this works to keep 80% - 90% of text consistent. In some cases where we have text on Design Layer & that text is viewed at several scales we will have set of Text Classes based on Layer Scale (ie Text-1:10, Text-1:50, Text-1:100 etc.). This means coping text - where mistakes tend to happen, so we limit this choice as much as practicable. 

[Wimads]

32 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The protocol we have is "All Text In Annotation". While there are exceptions, this works to keep 80% - 90% of text consistent. In some cases where we have text on Design Layer & that text is viewed at several scales we will have set of Text Classes based on Layer Scale (ie Text-1:10, Text-1:50, Text-1:100 etc.). This means coping text - where mistakes tend to happen, so we limit this choice as much as practicable. 

By "in annotation", do you mean on sheet layer? Sorry, not native English, so might have misunderstood. But if that is what you mean, I am not sure how that is a workable solution for anythiong except actual annotation? If any scale changes, you'd need to reposition all text that is dependent on location in drawing.

 

Anyway, keeping layer scale and viewport scale aligned, and not missing that scale text checkbox should be a workable solution for most of the stuff we do, except text in symbols.

To give some context, I work for a lightning design agency, so basically our most common drawing work consists of specifying position and specification of fixtures. Meaning symbols for each fixture, that have a label like "B2" in them. If the font size of that "B2" could in some way remain constant on the sheet layer, that would be perfect.

 

 

[Boh]

We also work in the way Jim does. Typically the only text on design layers are tags like room names, sanitary fittings names and the like which we want visible in multiple viewports. These text tags will have their own classes so they can be turned off in detail plans at different scales where they aren't necessary.

 

Though you are looking at 2d drawings, notes in annotations is how you would also work for 3D live section viewports and elevations too. 

[Boh]

16 minutes ago, Wimads said:

By "in annotation", do you mean on sheet layer? Sorry, not native English, so might have misunderstood. But if that is what you mean, I am not sure how that is a workable solution for anythiong except actual annotation? If any scale changes, you'd need to reposition all text that is dependent on location in drawing.

 

In annotation means inside a sheet layer viewport annotation space. Text in the annotation space is not effected when design layer scale is changed. It will scale up or down if viewport scale changes however (but will not need to be repositioned).

 

For symbols I generally try to avoid putting text in them for this very reason of scaling. However if you need the text and you often have these symbols needing to be represented in different scale viewports then I would suggest have text classes for each scale and control their visibilties by viewport class settings. You could link the symbol text objects to a record format so if need be you can edit all the text in one go via the data tab.

 

hope that makes sense.

[Jim Smith]

Boh has it correct.

Come to think of it I do have a few symbols where I do have text associated with the symbols. These are symbols for Fire Sprinkler Heads. In these symbols, we have 3 Text Classes that are based on how the text would look at 1:10, 1:25, 1:50 . You may note that the letter "S" is approximately the same font size in each viewport despite the scale of the viewport.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Jim Smith

[Wimads]

2 hours ago, Boh said:

 

In annotation means inside a sheet layer viewport annotation space. Text in the annotation space is not effected when design layer scale is changed. It will scale up or down if viewport scale changes however (but will not need to be repositioned).

 

For symbols I generally try to avoid putting text in them for this very reason of scaling. However if you need the text and you often have these symbols needing to be represented in different scale viewports then I would suggest have text classes for each scale and control their visibilties by viewport class settings. You could link the symbol text objects to a record format so if need be you can edit all the text in one go via the data tab.

 

hope that makes sense.

Alright, thanks for the explanations. I will try out a bit tomorrow.

We are a small company, with not a very large amount of experience in 2Dcad drawing. Most people are self thought in vectorworks, including me, so a lot of different workflows have formed between employees. And since the office has been growing in number, a need for some standardization is now emerging, so working in someone else's document isn't as much of a pain as it is right now.

 

Seeing your workflows makes me think some more education in vectorworks might also be useful, before attempting too elaborate a standard protocol for our workflow.

[Boh]

I went through this exact same process in our smallish architecture practice, trying to get everyone working the same, using the same office standards etc. We are still working on it...

 

Re text size scaling I was really confused by this too. We had a similar issue with window id tag symbols, trying to work out which scale tag to use to suit different DL & VP scales. You might find the attached pdf useful as a reference.

 

The id tags are part of the window objects so had to be on a design layer. In summary it is always best if the DL scale = VP scale.

WinDoor ID Symbol Scale Comparison.pdf

[Jim Smith]

18 hours ago, Boh said:

The id tags are part of the window objects so had to be on a design layer. In summary it is always best if the DL scale = VP scale.

 

Good advise all round. Design Layer scale should, wherever possible, be the same as Viewport scale. 

 

There is an issue that you do touch on. VW should look at developing some kind of "Smart Tags" that allow for all elements with notation to be scaled by a choice of the scale of a Viewport. So a Building Grid, a Door, Window, Wall, Section or Detail call out would be the same real world size regardless of the scale of a Viewport.