zoomer Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 32 minutes ago, Diamond said: The good news with USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 is that Wacom could finally do a HiDPI screen that has their tablet surface. With NVIDIA looking for apple engineers with OpenCL / CUDA experience, I am hopeful we will see a Mac Pro containing tech that could drive a screen like this. Would be nice. Or only upgrading Mac Pros to newest TB to make the ready to add an external GPU case. Could be just cards to exchange D700's of our old nMac Pros and no update. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Yep. For all of the complaining we in the Apple community do about the Mac Pro's, it is really just Thunderbolt 3 and GPUs that are seriously lagging behind the latest tech. But with CUDA, what a huge lag that is! Although, I am sure some would like a multi-CPU option. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Not speaking of Mac Pro's exactly. But at least some good news for the desktop. Tim Cook Assures Employees That It Is Committed to the Mac and That ‘Great Desktops’ Are Coming 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom Klaber Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 12 hours ago, Diamond said: Not speaking of Mac Pro's exactly. But at least some good news for the desktop. Tim Cook Assures Employees That It Is Committed to the Mac and That ‘Great Desktops’ Are Coming I think they got shaken by the Surface line-up and are now prepping their response. Should be good. My fear is that they are just going to throw a touch bar on a keyboard... Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted December 20, 2016 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted December 20, 2016 Just now, Tom Klaber said: I think they got shaken by the Surface line-up and are now prepping their response. Should be good. My fear is that they are just going to throw a touch bar on a keyboard... Now if they REALLY put some thought into it, and combine that delicious not-really-there haptic feedback from their current gen touchpads (they don't actually click mechanically, its fake but completely believable and tactile-feeling, totally fooled me for months) with the larger format of a keyboard, they may be on to something: Custom buttons mapped directly to software functions? Application-aware customizations based on the active app? Slider bar/touch knob input for appropriate selected data fields? Instantly switchable keyboard language and layout? I'd be all in. 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom Klaber Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, JimW said: Custom buttons mapped directly to software functions? Application-aware customizations based on the active app? Slider bar/touch knob input for appropriate selected data fields? Instantly switchable keyboard language and layout? I'd be all in. Maybe...I am skeptical. Just for me - having to teach my fingers new layouts for each program seems harder than remembering different shortcuts with the same key layout, but maybe I am closed minded. Lenovo seems to be halfway there with their Yoga book's transforming "keyboard" - maybe this is the future. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted December 20, 2016 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted December 20, 2016 That hinge alone is NUTS! I love it. Quote Link to comment
Tom Klaber Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Yeah, I want one. I have not read reviews, but my gut tells me to wait until the second iteration. This is novel enough where it would be hard to believe they got it all right on this first pass, but I am intrigued. Luckily it is $600 and out of reach for an impulse-buy. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Tom Klaber said: I think they got shaken by the Surface line-up and are now prepping their response. Should be good. My fear is that they are just going to throw a touch bar on a keyboard... Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news, but it is highly unlikely that Apple would release a surface-like Mac. And because of the production ramp time, they certainly would not have had the time to create a response any time soon. They will have been spending all of their time on the Touch Bar - which Apple have gone all-in on. Almost every Apple Mac app supports it. If you were wondering why macOS Sierra was light on, a likelihood is because their software teams spent some time working on Touch Bar integration. They will let Wacom create the touch screen. They will focus on Macs with good I/O (USB-C, Thunderbolt 3). As was mentioned earlier, no one wants to pay that amount of money for a touch screen that is not upgradable. Remember, the best stylus out there is the Pencil, and for at least the next few years, will be way too expensive to place in a 27' iMac. But I am sure Apple does have a iMac prototype knocking around. Now that would be very nice to play with. For some Pros, the most important things they need (besides the new superfast I/O) are things like; multiple CPUs; and graphics cards that are able to be used with OpenCL and CUDA. If Apple doesn't release a new Mac Pro, I wouldnt be surprised if they partnered with a third party to create an external GPU box that runs over Thunderbolt 3. Similar to what they have done with LG and their new Ultrafine displays. That way it would be upgradable. In fact, even if they do make a new Mac Pro, I wouldn't be surprised if they announced s similar solution. Additionally, I wouldn't be surprised if their new iMacs ar able to be used as external displays – like the old 27" ones were able to. If we as Vectorworks users want new ways of working, Vectorworks needs to use the iPad as the stylus. Boost the Nomad app's capabilities for sketching and editting. Get them right there, then bring them back into Vectorworks. 1 Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 hours ago, JimW said: Now if they REALLY put some thought into it, and combine that delicious not-really-there haptic feedback from their current gen touchpads (they don't actually click mechanically, its fake but completely believable and tactile-feeling, totally fooled me for months) with the larger format of a keyboard, they may be on to something: Custom buttons mapped directly to software functions? Application-aware customizations based on the active app? Slider bar/touch knob input for appropriate selected data fields? Instantly switchable keyboard language and layout? I'd be all in. There was a rumour of Apple exploring the possibility of working with an Australian company that creates keyboard with E-ink keys. But it appears that may have just been a rumour in order to boost the third party stock price. Because of touch ID, I would say that you can expect a touch bar keyboard on all Macs with the next release. Becasue of the scale pf their production, Apple usually releases a feature on one device first, while they ramp up production, then rolls it out to other devices. As with stylus integration, and using the iPad, I would want Vectorworks to have a solution for the touch bar. I would love to sunset my Apple extended keyboards. Quote Link to comment
Tom Klaber Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 18 hours ago, Diamond said: They will have been spending all of their time on the Touch Bar - which Apple have gone all-in on. Almost every Apple Mac app supports it. If you were wondering why macOS Sierra was light on, a likelihood is because their software teams spent some time working on Touch Bar integration. 1 What a depressing take, but maybe it's true. It touchbar that useful? I am not intrigued at all. It does not seem that innovative - more like a consumer contrivance - great for easy emoji access, but as far as a real productivity boost - I just do not see it. Have people found it truly useful? I think the external GPU is a good way to go - Razer style. It would be a nice way for the consumer and professional worlds to collide. A series of nice displays with consumer specs that professionals can beef up with external power connected through Thunderbolt. I could get on board with that. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Tom Klaber said: It does not seem that innovative - more like a consumer contrivance - great for easy emoji access, but as far as a real productivity boost - I just do not see it. Have people found it truly useful? I think it is more than just emoji access. But how much more remains to be seen. People are just starting to use it, and so we will find out its real value over the next year. On this forum, a number of members have shown links to various input devices, which mostly are too narrow in their abilities. The good thing for the Touch Bar is that it is far more flexible. Often with interfaces, the slow down is having to take ones hands off the keyboard to use a mouse. The touch bar can certainly help with that. For drawing interfaces (using mouse or stylus), often the slow down is having to change mode to select/search through palettes and commands, or enter a numerical input. If for instance, you can use the Touch Bar to quickly access tool palettes or tool mode bars, and it can change inputs depending on the tool/mode/OIP state, I think you have something may be very powerful. But it will be up to developers to support it. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The Microsoft Surface is great for certain mark up and drawing tasks, but compared with a mouse, it's use in Vectorworks is mostly going to be slower and harder to use. Similar to the mouse, I see the Touch bar as a tool with an interesting blend. Both delighting the user and increasing productivity. With the iPad, often things take longer, but delight the user more and are therefore more enjoyable. Productivity is great, but it is not an end unto itself. I did notice last night that Duet Display (duetdisplay.com) has released an update which includes the touch bar as well. (FYI Duet Display allows you to use your iPad as an external display). Effectively having a touch screen Mac with touch bar. It is a little slow on my older Mac, but works well in newer ones. Will have to test over hols. Quote Link to comment
Jim Smith Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 What I want in a dream interface is a piece of electronic drafting paper & a drafting board with a "Mouse Pencil". Sort of a sonic screwdriver kinda thing, I guess it's an interface made from parts & equipment partially not yet invented. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Not sure if you peeps saw this. http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/5/14128434/dells-canvas-touchscreen-display-announced-ces-2017 Whilst I think Microsoft's Surface machine is great, I think this is a more appropriate response. Especially for pro users, who like to upgrade their hardware. Not sure that I like the virtual keyboard, but for some stylus heavy workflow scenarios , I could definitely see it being faster. And having a keyboard nearby is easy enough. Obviously with apps like Duet and AstroPad on the iPad, the Mac can already do this. 1 Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) A good video showing the some workflows here… Edit: In fact, this is not the same product, but get's the idea across much better. Edited January 6, 2017 by Diamond 1 Quote Link to comment
Matt Overton Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 On 22/12/2016 at 8:06 AM, Diamond said: The Microsoft Surface is great for certain mark up and drawing tasks, but compared with a mouse, it's use in Vectorworks is mostly going to be slower and harder to use. Similar to the mouse, I see the Touch bar as a tool with an interesting blend. Both delighting the user and increasing productivity. With the iPad, often things take longer, but delight the user more and are therefore more enjoyable. Productivity is great, but it is not an end unto itself. I did notice last night that Duet Display (duetdisplay.com) has released an update which includes the touch bar as well. (FYI Duet Display allows you to use your iPad as an external display). Effectively having a touch screen Mac with touch bar. It is a little slow on my older Mac, but works well in newer ones. Will have to test over hols. Duet display would be perfect if the touches were separate to the mouse. Trying to use it for extra screen while on the laptop over summer. This is the most frustrating aspect of it if you use as it touch screen you have to track the cursor back to the main work area. Which is mostly because OS X doesn't understand multi-touch. Still, shows great potential. 1 Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Matt Overton said: Duet display would be perfect if the touches were separate to the mouse. Trying to use it for extra screen while on the laptop over summer. This is the most frustrating aspect of it if you use as it touch screen you have to track the cursor back to the main work area. Great point. Love this idea. 2 hours ago, Matt Overton said: Which is mostly because OS X doesn't understand multi-touch. Still, shows great potential. But what about the track pad? It has a form of multitouch doesn't it? Have you requested it from them? I am writing a request email to them right now. Maybe they can come up with a solution. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 11 hours ago, Diamond said: Edit: In fact, this is not the same product I think it is a far better product. But why do they always have to be so ugly and cheap looking. (like the first linked device) Why not just a square Box, or at least a flat bottom and sides. If it will be too thick to work on a table, someone would sell a frame around it to get it into a level workplane with the desk. Including a gutter for coffee accidents. I hope so much that such devices will come. Not an All in One like Surface Studio but as a separate device. And I still hope for Apple. While functional wise those things often look good, it's Apples work in detail that lets such devices work smoothly, recognizing what is just your hand resting on your tablet screen and which may be that one finger that actually wants to control something. As they will not be cheap it can easily become annoying when not working right. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 On 6.1.2017 at 4:43 PM, zoomer said: I think it is a far better product. Looks like those are the same So not so ugly as long as look at it from top only. If Dell did just the hardware and MS/Wacom do the touch and pen things, it might work as good as surface studio. But I prefer the true surface hardware. Apple or MS. Currently I'm also fascinated by Surface book or even Pro. Hope for a 15" (better 17") version with at least quad core i7 and a bit more meat to deal with heat and resulting noise. Quote Link to comment
zoomer Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 BTW Dell Canvas is just a Wacom Cintiq Touch, same hardware. Just $1k more affordable + Surface-like puck. Wacom looks a bit better (still far from nice) but can't sit level on a desk. But both their screens are far from what is Surface Studio. Quote Link to comment
Diamond Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 More in this space… Astropad have just released their new product – Astropad Studio. This is a $65 per year subscription (iOS app store fees were never going to pay for pro requirements). Regarding Duet Display… On 06/01/2017 at 3:21 PM, Matt Overton said: This is the most frustrating aspect of it if you use as it touch screen you have to track the cursor back to the main work area. Which is mostly because OS X doesn't understand multi-touch. Still, shows great potential. Whilst I am not sure this Astropad gets around having two cursors, it does have support for multi-touch. Quote Link to comment
rgcn Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 On 2017-01-11 at 2:14 PM, Diamond said: More in this space… Astropad have just released their new product – Astropad Studio. This is a $65 per year subscription (iOS app store fees were never going to pay for pro requirements). Have you given Astropad a try on Vectorworks yet? I'm curious if anyones has found any use on it yet. Rob Quote Link to comment
Farrardesign Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I have been using Astropad to trace jog or PDF context into VW2016 as vector objects. I LOVE IT! 1 Quote Link to comment
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