Door Schedules: Auto vs Manual

[tessaro]

Hi All,

I've been trying to set up a detailed door and hardware schedule for a school we're working on and have been running into some issues.

We have created our drawing with doors as symbols, to maintain global editability for the basic types of doors we have (ie. ID-01, ID-02, etc). However, when you get down to the details of the door, each will have slight differences, even if they remain within a general type (hardware, FRR, accessories, etc).

I want to create an automated schedule, where I can manually edit some of the columns per door with specific information, but this does not seem to be possible from what I've found. And, I have not found a way to attach unique information on a particular instance of a door symbol either, that could be automatically read in the schedule.

Has anyone dealt with this and found a work around?

I would like it to read something like the following:

D001 | ID-01 | SIZE... | Exit Device, FRR 1HR, Wall Stop

D002 | ID-01 | SIZE... | Lockset, Floor stop

D003...

As a simple example, but with the basic parameters of ID-01 still linked and globally editable.

Any help would be great - thanks!

Josh

[rDesign]

I don't think you're going to be able to do what you want because you are using symbols for your doors. Multiple instances of the ID-01 Door symbol will have exactly the same info, as you discovered. A symbol cannot have any unique data fields.

I don't know how many doors you're dealing with, but I would not use symbols for the doors and instead just use the standard Door PIOs and fill out the User Data Fields if the Door Hardware Sets are insufficient for your needs.

[tessaro]

Thank Tim, yeah, that's kind of where I got to.

What about maintaining the global editability of the door types in another way? Say with a class to enable mass selection...? Any thoughts?

We're dealing with up to 50 of one door type.

Cheers.

BTW, we're running VW2016

[bcd]

You can attach more than one record format to a symbol.

In this case create a new 'Door Details' record format representing all the unique detail fields you need.

Then once you place the door symbol you can uniquely complete these fields.

[tessaro]

bcd,

I had tried that, but ran into the problem that I could not retrieve both things: [1] the unique record format information attached to the symbol and [2] the general door PIO information common to the symbol, in the same worksheet database.

When creating a database based on the record format of the symbol, it read the information of the PIO inside the symbol as "0".

Am I missing something?

[Guest Wes Gardner]

Hi All,

A thought might be to create "Red Symbols" for your doors. This way all the data, classing, styling, etc. can be embedded in the red symbol but then once it's pulled into the drawing, have the unique ID available.

Wes

[rDesign]

I had to search the help for what a 'red symbol' was...

Editing Symbol Definitions : Vw2015 Help

[michaelk]

tessaro

If I understand what you want to accomplish, I think this is possible.

If you want the door parameters + custom parameters in the same worksheet database, that's definitely possible. (But I might be misunderstanding your intention.)

Can you post an example with 2 or 3 different doors in a wall?

mk

[Markvl]

Wes is correct.

I've just learned to do this 'red symbol'. Place a door, or window for that matter, make it look like you want it with all your settings in place then create a symbol of it but check on "convert to plug-in-object". Your window and door will appear in the RB like any other symbol but it's description will be red not black. The great thing is that once you place the door or window into a wall it is no longer a symbol but a door or window like the one you originally made the symbol from.

I'm learning how to get more out VW and I'm liking what it can do. There are a few bumps of course but still making it work.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Markvl

[zoomer]

I don't understand Plug-in-Object Symbols from the linked help file.

Does this allow me to set the appearance of a Door or Window, like

Materials, Jamb Sizes, .... like a Wall Style,

and then edit the instances for example in overall width.

So that they will update when I change the Style of all of them ?

[michaelk]

Not exactly.

Red symbols allow you to preset the parameters of a plug in object. It's really helpful to set the door id, hinge direction, parts classes once, create a red symbol, and use that across documents to save the trouble of resetting all those parameters every time.

Once inserted into the drawing, however, the symbol becomes a plug in object again and looses its connection to the symbol.

What you're thinking of - a door type or style that behaves like a wall style - I wish it did that too!

mk

[zoomer]

OK,

so Door/Window Plugin is a one-way option that you will have in your STA File for

the roughest settings. (To avoid the "Glazing-Clear" Class, ...)

Everything else is done manually and relies on the power of the Magic Wand Tool.

[rDesign]

In case anyone is still confused (like myself) about using 'red symbols', I found this VwKB Tech Tip video:

I understand the usefulness of Red symbols for pre-setting attributes and parameters as michaelk pointed out, but I don't see how it answers the original poster's question:

As a simple example, but with the basic parameters of ID-01 still linked and globally editable

Once placed, a Red symbol is just like a regular Door PIO and it is not linked to others of the same type, so you would need to keep track of which doors are type ID-01 -vs- ID-02. Which Magic Wand settings would allow you to select only doors of type ID-01 so that you could make global changes to only that door type?

[bcd]

The missing link is to create a symbol of the door PIO and attach the Door Details record to it.

The magic which I have yet to unravel is to call up all the doors in a Worksheet Database and pull the both the Record information from the enclosed door but also from the Symbol.

The formula to do this is the key.

(red symbols are herrings for this exercise I'm afraid)

[michaelk]

There is no need to use symbols as doors. Any user created record format can be attached to any object, including doors. Red symbols can just be a shortcut for setting all the door part classes, hardware, etc.

hth

mk

[bcd]

Red Symbol with preconfigured doors and then enter the unique data in the Door>Settings>Data>User Fields

[michaelk]

Or in a worksheet.

[tessaro]

Sorry, just got back to this after a day and lots of posts - thanks for the comments!

bcd: Like I mentioned before, the problem is extracting the data from both the doors and the Record Format on the symbol that the door is encased in. I haven't found a way to do this...

Michael: I'm attaching a basic drawing with door symbols and worksheet (Tessaro Door Test.vwx). What I'd like to be able to do with this is write specific info for a door, without it duplicating to all the doors of that type.

The "red" symbol seems to be my best bet, and it could be possible to keep global editability with class designation per door type... but other than that, I haven't found a solution to keep the doors as symbols.

Thanks all!

[tessaro]

Oh, and while we're on the topic of doors...

Is there any way in VW to link the attributes of a Space PIO to a Door PIO? (to link location information)

Thanks again!

[billtheia]

tessaro, I'm confused about what you are trying to achieve. Exactly what are the "slight differences" between various instances of the same door? And where are you going to call out these differences (another worksheet?) How will someone reading your drawings know which D001 you are talking about?

It seems to me that either all of each door type (D001, D002, etc.) are the same or they aren't the same door.

[tessaro]

Bill,

All doors are individual (D001, D002, .. with different FRR, hardware set, etc..), but each door will belong to a type (ID-01, ID-02, etc... with more general information).

Cheers,

Josh

[michaelk]

Josh

I see what you're trying to do: Door styles. The same way Wall, Slab, and Roof styles work.

I tried creating a door, making it a symbol, and then attaching another record format to that symbol. Works great. Until you try to get the data from the door and the record attached to the symbol to appear on the same line in the database.

You can do it. But it isn't pretty.

Have you tried this: Instead of creating a symbol from a door object, make the door from a symbol. That gets you the benefits of symbols and lets you skip adding an additional record format. The only downside is you have to manually enter the size of the door.

If it were me, I'd use worksheets to copy / paste all the door data in one fell swoop.

I'll post an example when I get a chance.

mk

[tessaro]

Michael,

If we're thinking the same thing - I agree.

Start with a red symbol and populate the drawing with PIO's. Set a user data field in the PIO for the door style. Then mass edit each style from the worksheet, by organizing, mass select and edit.

Seems like a good system to deal with the variety of needs.

Thanks all for the input!

Cheers.

[billtheia]

OK, Josh. I see what you mean now.

I think that Michel is right about the best way to "automate" this type of system - creating a door from a symbol so that you could make global changes to the symbol while maintaining individual PIO records for each individual door.

You might consider just doing this all manually, though, to avoid complication. It will require a little more manual coordination but you're going to have to do some level of manual coordination anyway. You could create symbols for each of the door types (with default data set for each) and set the symbols up to convert to PIO on placement. You could then just use a user field for Door ID. Much simpler and less prone to unexpected problems.

Please let us know what you do in the end. I'm curious to see how you ultimately work this thing out.

Good luck.

[michaelk]

I agree with Bill about using the user fields for your individual door number and hardware options.

Since you want to add geometry to a door object, you could even use black symbols containing doors and other geometry as the symbol for the door. That way you still have the door OIP at the symbol level. You just need to manually enter the size in the door that appears on the drawing. Easier to manage with worksheets.

I often create "working" worksheets in addition to the real schedule to manage things like this. Especially if other people have been working on the drawing. It's an easy way to make sure that things like the class assignments for door hinge indicators and IDs are all the same. Or even to find things like doors that have been inserted in the Site-DTM-Modifier class.

Not that that would ever happen…

mk