give Nemetschek feed back through their website form here

[QfanatiQ]

Can I please encourage everyone to give Nemetschek feed back through their website form here.

Please leave whatever feedback/requests you feel would be of use. I have asked for care towards their end users and a prescnse here on this forum both for us and their R&D

http://www.nemetschek.com/en/home/contact.html

I don't want to be a frustrated and struggling VW user. And on the man occasions I am and do, I would like a reliable avenue to gain information and know it is supported by the company themselves.

Cheers.

Q

[Dieter @ DWorks]

What's wrong with this forum?

Many users post their wishes and frustrations here on the forum. NVW only need to read them to know how to improve the program. (They could learn a thing or two about how VW affects our mood from certain things, they will learn more here than by sending a contact form.)

Why posting all things twice?

Edited May 11, 2012 by DWorks

[VincentCuclair]

Well many many of my wishes are implemented each year and I only post here on the forum so I assume they do monitor it regularly.

I must also add that I spend an almost unjustifiable amount of time on this forum so if they want feed back on the website they will get it in the form of links to this forum.......

[Christiaan]

What Vincent and Dieter said.

[QfanatiQ]

Fair enough, I have just go the impression we do not always get things answered or struggle through. It is not all meant to be about wish lists but actual use and support from the top.

There is nothing wrong with this forum and it is a great starter platform. I have posted elsewhere about other forums (other CAD apps) are structured better, have a massive wealth of information, have a good involvement from the CAD company.

I am interested in VW people taking a hands on approach and being active with us on such places as this.

Certainly did not meant to poopoo this place. I visit often, help if I possibly think I can.

Q

[bc]

If NNA were keeping that close an eye on this forum, we wouldn't get to rant at each other as often or for as long...

Edited May 11, 2012 by bc

[QfanatiQ]

Haha, sometimes ranting is a good thing.

It is not about moderation or control and if anyone feels there needs to be a stop to the 'ranting' then it must have got a bit past being a generic moan and needless to say we would get suitably shut down here.

I love a good rant. Since using VW I do not suffer from low blood pressure, it is what the Dr's call, typical. Finally, to be normal. Thanks VW.

Q

[QfanatiQ]

What's wrong with this forum?

Many users post their wishes and frustrations here on the forum. NVW only need to read them to know how to improve the program. (They could learn a thing or two about how VW affects our mood from certain things, they will learn more here than by sending a contact form.)

Why posting all things twice?

I just had a look down the list and there are lots of posts not answered or even acknowledged. We need help, many people need help and if they can't get it, they don't revisit, if they don't get help they or others don't learn and we do not build a community board of worthwhile content.

Am I really missing the point and being unnecessarily obstinate? Look at all the posts with 0 against them and help my understand what what I am trying to do is so out of place and wrong?

Q

[grant_PD]

The point of forums is for everyone to share in discussion. That way when one has an issue one can see if the issue is new or has already been dealt with. If everyone just used a private feedback form with NV, then we would all be on our own and not capitalizing on the strength of numbers.

If NV wanted to encourage the use of the feedback form, then the moderators of this forum should reply to those that can't get answers here and direct them towards the feedback form. The silence of unanswered posts is deadly.

I have contacted NV through several channels: tech support emails, bug submits, forum posts, feedback forms...I find that their response quality is spotty. There are times when I get immediate responses, other times when I get nothing.

[bc]

My comment was tongue-in-cheek.

[Christiaan]

A plug for VSS is probably appropriate here. I don't know about the U.S. but in the UK VSS priority is excellent.

[QfanatiQ]

The point of forums is for everyone to share in discussion. That way when one has an issue one can see if the issue is new or has already been dealt with. If everyone just used a private feedback form with NV, then we would all be on our own and not capitalizing on the strength of numbers.

If NV wanted to encourage the use of the feedback form, then the moderators of this forum should reply to those that can't get answers here and direct them towards the feedback form. The silence of unanswered posts is deadly.

I have contacted NV through several channels: tech support emails, bug submits, forum posts, feedback forms...I find that their response quality is spotty. There are times when I get immediate responses, other times when I get nothing.

I am suggesting both. We notify NV of issues and post here as well if applicable. I don't think me posting my crash report here would help? But posting issues with wall joins, doors jamb appliance how to get,,,, etc does. If these continue to be problematic or not solvable because of NV limitations then we can also post feedback to them.

Q

[QfanatiQ]

Look at all the posts with 0 against them and help my understand what what I am trying to do is so out of place and wrong?

Q

Just had another look on the general discussion page and we have 10+ posts with zero against them still. Nothing I can help with.

I ask again, am I asking for the wrong thing by wanting a bit of end support direct from VW people to help us all?

We are not being anywhere near as supportive to each other or new user as our collective knowledge base is low it would appear.

Anyone?

Q

[Christiaan]

This is just one avenue of support. It's a community forum. If people want priority support then that is available (and highly recommended from me, by way of Vectorworks Service Select). There's not much that can be done about unanswered posts here except for NV to have more people using the forum.

[QfanatiQ]

I have not found any other forums apart from one that was AUS based and subscription. I am a low worker bee here and have no authority to pay for such things.

Can anyone here approach and ask VW to have someone dip in?

Again, I cannot stress enough about other CAD package forums, users, and their own heavy presence as they want their end user to be supported and using the products well.

I have images of two rooms. In one, is 1000 monies and keyboards programming this or in the other is a mass of school geeks that were bullied and now take it out on unsuspecting users of their code, while taking over the MAC/PC camera and laughing at what happens when you press a certain string of keys!

independent forums needn't be without support from the manufactures in fact they should be embracing, helping, reading and learning themselves of likes, dislikes, issues, troubles, ways around, etc etc.

Q

[grant_PD]

ah, I believe I misunderstood your original post. You are trying to direct NemV to pay MORE attention to this forum, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

I believe we have all asked that a tech support request list be generated so that we can all see what's going on there. I would ask that tech support just be on this forum as an area of discussion. A lot of times bugs are really, just user malfunction.

[QfanatiQ]

A lot of times bugs are really, just user malfunction.

Love that!

I used to administer IT support for a network of users for Autodesk AutoCAD and back then a few ADT seats. I used to love to say computers only do what you tell them to do, therefore it must be user error.

I can certainly agree that some of the issues I have with generating tables are user error and other such things. But I do find there are a lot of glitches and further difficulties that make the use unnecessary. I am reporting my crash reports to our reseller now.

It has not been a month and they are struggling, I fired 5 yesterday. Happened when deleting a fill, changing a opacity back to 100%, pasting a window into a new drawing. Editing text and changing the size of a text. All different drawings, different jobs (so folder locations) and a mixture of working on server and desktop.

Again I feel ARGHHHHHHH

[Christiaan]

A lot of times bugs are really, just user malfunction.

This is such a awful awful way of looking at things. It's ingrained in the Vectorworks community/culture too unfortunately.

You only need to dabble in the open source community and listen to their attitudes about UX design and 'the stupid users' and then look at their half-assed UX design to realise how toxic this attitude is for software.

[VincentCuclair]

A lot of times bugs are really, just user malfunction.

If this really is true you would also need to reason that VWs is too complicated for its own good and not intuitive enough and that that in itself is a bug.

[Christiaan]

If this really is true you would also need to reason that VWs is too complicated for its own good and not intuitive enough and that that in itself is a bug.

Precisely.

[Ozzie]

you would also need to reason that VWs is too complicated for its own good and not intuitive enough

True

[grant_PD]

Well, in defense of my statement I would go on to say that a lot of "bugs" that I found in my first few years as a user did turn out to be me not understanding the technique for doing a certain operation.

I agree with the point that there is a culture of arrogance when it comes to software developers, ergo RTFM.

There's also in my opinion a growing culture of users who don't want software, they want "apps." They want to touch a button and have the program instantly do whatever it is they want it to do with perfect results every time.

The combination of these two cultures can be pretty deadly. Software companies would do well to keep the end users inundated with lots of support and examples and tutorials so that the user has plenty of options to learn. Just look at Cineversity over at Maxon. That company wants market share in the 3d modelling/rendering world, and they are tripping over themselves to teach people their program.

[IanH]

Well, in defense of my statement I would go on to say that a lot of "bugs" that I found in my first few years as a user did turn out to be me not understanding the technique for doing a certain operation.

+1

I found the same.

I started off with a student edition of VW11 which came, unfortunately just like now, with no manuals. I would frequently get stuck with it not behaving as I thought it should, or VW would crash and I would blame it all on bugs. Ok, so crashes should not happen, but it is not always the fault of the app. I guess the reality was that only 1% were real bugs the rest was user malfunction.

However, when I got commercial version of 2008, it came with all the manuals and I got time to read them cover to cover whilst I was commuting. It got me in the zone with how things should work, I always had instant access to tangible help which I find so much more palatable than virtual help and my productivity rocketed and crashes went through the floor. I cannot remember the last time that I had a crash, although I do still manually save (in addition to performing automatic backup) before I do what have been in the past, risky tasks.

[Christiaan]

There's also in my opinion a growing culture of users who don't want software, they want "apps." They want to touch a button and have the program instantly do whatever it is they want it to do with perfect results every time.

Let's hope that culture becomes dominant. I'm only interested in my tools insofar as they help me to do my job: design.

[QfanatiQ]

There's also in my opinion a growing culture of users who don't want software, they want "apps." They want to touch a button and have the program instantly do whatever it is they want it to do with perfect results every time.

Let's hope that culture becomes dominant. I'm only interested in my tools insofar as they help me to do my job: design.

You should try Revit, I have worked with people who love this, they are abel to throw up many designs quickly and vary is greatly.

I am a techie, I like precision not sweeping statements of art when it comes to package use.

I do like the fact it seems Revit is used by designers and Techies and ease between them. I am looking forward to getting to grips with it.

Q

But, what of a VW presence?

Also, user error, yes, in terms of greater use, but no, not in terms of crashing and unnecessary complications in getting to end result!

Q