Symbol Clones

[AndiACD]

While i'm on the subject of Symbols, another thing i'd like to see is a "New" option in the form of a "Clone" option.

Not another duplicate, right now duplicate makes you a copy of a symbol, asks you to give it a name or use the number system, any number of these symbols in your drawing is updated as you modify them, there it ends.

What i would like is the ability to make copies/duplicates/clones of a symbol that update with the original.

in this way, if you add to one of the "Clones" say the front or rear version of the clones these do not alter the original, but if you modify the original the others are also modified in sync.

Am i making any sense? is to me . . . . . . . .

[CipesDesign]

If I understand what you're asking for... I think it's an interesting idea, and I think you could probably accomplish it quite easily by using discreet classes for each different part (or whatever) that was added to any object, or set of objects, be it a symbol or a group.

[gmm18]

AndiACD...maybe you can explain with a graphic or sketch or something...cause I am not seeing this...

[AndiACD]

Sorry i should have tried to be a little more specific

OK. let's use an example i can understand .(?) . . . .

Front and rear axle/drive train of a vehicle, 4x4 means there can be many common parts, Diff case, drive shafts, etc etc, but, these have to be attached to the wheels via A arms, hubs, and a spattering of other variables that differ front to back. So i create a symbol with the diff and drive shafts that may be the same, then i clone this and add those parts that differ. Now, if something changes in the diff design all clones are updated too but i don't have to worry about the mods i make in the clones compromising the original. The A arms can be improved regarding geometry but the diff just remains constant in the clones.

As it stands, if i need a variable of a symbol i duplicate it how ever many times i need to, keep the original, work on the copies, if i have to adjust the original i then have to copy and paste the mods into the other copies(i'm still on VW 11.5.1 remember) and it seems to me it should be easier.

i use classes too but i don't think they offer what i'm after.

Maybe there's something in recent versions i've missed when i tried them out, but i didn't see anything that could assist me this way.

i'll see if i can doodle something that can help explain too if i'm still not being clear.

Edited October 5, 2008 by AndiACD

[CipesDesign]

Andi- I do think this is an interesting request, but I think it would probably appeal to a pretty limited set of Vectorworks users. That said, I think you can easily accomplish what you're after by using classes. Using your example above: the basic assembly (that is the same for both front and rear) is assigned to "classA" , then the additional parts (which are only used in one of the two axles) are assigned to "classB", "classC" (use as many discreet classes as you have need for). Now, put all these into a symbol (which is the 'container' and could be in any class). In order to present your basic axle you set "classA" to be visible, and the other classes invisible; in order to present the enhanced axle all you need to do is make the additional class(es) visible. Additionally (and more to the point of your initial request) if you need to modify the basic axle it is right there (in classA) and also, during the modification process you could make classB,C,etc active to make sure that the mod's to the basic axle are completely in synch with the add-on's...

[AndiACD]

Hey Peter,

That sounds good enough to work for most of what i need. i do use classes to separate sectors of a project, Transmission, Chassis, Shell . . . . so it goes on, but i never even considered the possibility of sub classes(if i've understood correctly, that is).

Looks like i'm going to have to dig out the manual again and see if i can make more sense on what you've suggested. . . . . . . .

Thanx

Edited October 6, 2008 by AndiACD

[CipesDesign]

Andi, it sounds like you might have better success if you use LAYERS for your major part divisions, and CLASSES for visibilities/attributes. This is how VW's is "intended" to be used (however there are no hard and fast rules). For example, in the architectural world we generally use LAYERS as containers which contain LAYERS or LEVELS of the building (eg: Layer:Floor 1, Layer:Floor2, etc), then use CLASSES for types of objects (eg: Class1:Walls, Class2:Fixtures, etc.),

Keep in mind two things: 1) You can (and perhaps should) interweave LAYERS & CLASSES (visible/invisible) to create custom visibilities; and 2) You can use classes for attributes (by checking the "use at creation" box).

Read the manual and then get back with questions if you have any. Have fun!

[AndiACD]

Peter, When MiniCAD mutated into Vectorworks i used layers incessantly, but precision was so lax i found it difficult to continue working with layers as VW intended.

i still use them for various options but any fine precision work, it just can't cut it. i can cut and paste into another layer once i'm satisfied i have what i want, but i still feel that refinements are needed . . .

A millimeter variation in a wall may not matter but 0.01mm could make or brake a drawing in Mech/Eng circles and VW often lacks this ability across layers.

Maybe this has improved in recent releases, but until i am persuaded of this i'll reserve judgement.

Thanx regardless for all of your potential solutions, i still intend to delve deeper into their possibilities. . . . . i'll let you know . . . . . .

[CipesDesign]

Andi- Yeah, we're for sure using it for very different things, and I certainly appreciate your need for 100% accuracy. So play around.... And if you do find that small inaccuracies appear I'm sure the engineers/programmers will appreciate it if file a bug which clearly demonstrates the problem. [Note: what version of VW's are you running?]

[jbrhwy]

Andi

Would you post a Vectorworks file that demonstrates the problem you have with precision between layers.

[AndiACD]

Jaberwokey, i can send you a file of two of the same symbols(Low file size) placed as they are in a drawing.(if you're OK with that) if you check the symbol, it seems perfectly accurate. Put another beside it, and close inspection shows that despite the fact tat every aspect of the symbol has been created at 0, 0, 0, coordinates, misalignment of important elements result. Having said that, i checked yesterday, i'm going back now to look at something else i have thought of. Don't want to shoot myself in the foot!! . . .

Peter, i haven't upgraded since 11.5 as the demos i tried did not appear to have solved most of my Gripes . . . . . Guess it's time to bite the bullet and hope for the best. . . . . . waiting for the 2009 trial to be released here.

[mike m oz]

AndiACD, VW has moved on a long way since VW 11.5. You should be well pleased with what VW 2009 can do.

[AndiACD]

Mike,

Yeah, so i understand . . .

Looking forward to trying it out. . . . .

[Hamo]

Don't know if his helps.  If I need a specific item on a separate layer.  I create the new layer. Go back to the item I need to move, select it and choose the layer it needs to go to in the OIP.  I do this quite often with major event design. Never had an item shift out of position.

 

[Pat Stanford]

@Hamo Do you realize there is a New Layer option  (and New Class) directly in the pulldown menu in the OIP?  You don't need to go to the Navigation Palette or the Organization Dialog Box to create the layer. When you make the new layer directly from the pulldown the selected object is automatically assigned to the new layer (or class).

[Hamo]

Thank you Pat.

Just had a look and i'm ashamed to say I hadn't noticed that.  Too busy being busy and not paying attention.

 

Extremely useful.

 

H