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What 2008 forgot and 2009 has forgotton too

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We have been sitting here quietly for a while [which is rare for me] waiting for a 2008 update to rectify the screen flicker bug. This was reported well over a year ago, strong debate was held here and files sent to NNA. The screen flicked badly and we were failing health and safty rules in the UK, especially as an employee has eplipesy. NNA advised 2008 would resolve the problem so we update all pcs - but it did not resolve it. NNA eventually recognised the problem and the temporary work around solution suggested was to keep you object info pallette open until the next bug update sorted it out. This was fine in the short term but it does take a lot of the screen up and we can not minimise or have auto hide without the flicker. The bug was given high priority but nothing has been done about it and I find out yesterday that it was forgotton in 2009!

I suggest an urgent 2008 update is issued to resolve this problem.

We are certainly not paying out more money for 2009 upgrades to all our pcs unless this basic bug is fixed in 2008.

Sorry to sound so annoyed but I am annoyed!!

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Wake up and smell the coffee. You were not forgotten, but ignored.

A company that makes a living from writing and upgrading software must choose what features to include and what to leave behind at each release. They do not forget, but make business decisions about what features will sell.

For NNA it may have been the right decision. For me, it seems like the wrong one. I don't understand why VW/NNA doesn't focus on keeping their base happier. If we all liked the software, they'd have a sales force of thousands.

But you have ParaSolids! Now you can flicker with better 3D capabilities.

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  • 2 months later...

The screen flicker problem reported to NNA some 2 years ago and still not fixed in 2009 and its recent update. Whilst recognised by NNA as a bug which flickers the screen in XP and Vista they forgot to fix it in 2009 and say to now fix it would break the system.

The temporary solution, which is not fully successful, is to keep the object info pallet fully open at all times.

As said previously, NNA should be concentrating on getting the basics right before advancing the system every year. This is a health and safety issue, affecting those with epilepsy, and should not be sold without that warning. Up to now I have strongly supported Vectorworks but not now as I am very disappointed that a problem identified over 2 years ago has still not been fixed, we were mis sold 2008 by NNA as they claimed it had resolved the problem, have not been kept up to date with investigations and, to be frank, do not believe that such a bug would break the system, especially as the system goes through some fundamental changes each year.

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No wonder you are annoyed.

Meanwhile I suggest you install an second monitor on the PC where your epileptic friend works (why not on all). Place the OIP on the other screen.

Monitors are cheap nowadays and the extra screen is a blessing in many other ways.

All rarely used palettes, e-mail, internet browser etc are at hand, without interfering with your drawing.

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I started noticing, what I call "blinking", in VW2008 shortly after I began using it. Later, I discovered that VW12.5 is now blinking, where it never did before. This suggests to me that the source of the problem is something common to both versions---such as QuickTime. I tried using different versions of QT, but no change. So my only option is to try to synchronize my blinking with the screen. So far no luck.

I'm not epileptic, but I find the blinking very distracting. It's not like 60hz fluorescent flicker, but more like a random blink or two from time to time. And it only affects the drawing area in my case. The headers and palettes don't blink. No other applications blink, so I can't blame it on the video card.

Now I find that VW2009 is doing the same thing. I hope somebody can figure out what is causing this unseemly behavior---before I develop symptoms of epilepsy.

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Unfortunately NNA are not too concerned about it - if they were they would have fixed it by now - over 2 years is a long time. The more that report this bug the more NNA will take notice and hopefully solve it. And it is a VW bug - NNA have acknoledged this - its not your hardware.

We could get more screens but to be far we would have to buy an extra one for all 5 people - who already have big screens - they do not have enough desk space and at the moment I can not afford to spend out to cover something NNA have forgotton to fix.

NNA do not seem concerned about their moral obligation and legalality of the health and safety issue.

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I'm sorry if your issue has not been resolved by this time. Engineering is aware of similar, if not this exact, problems. Many times there are so many parts to these issues and some are beyond our control (e.g. OS support for OpenGL, Hardware support for OpenGL, Graphics card drivers, etc.).

VW 2008 will not receive any more updates, as 2009 is the current product and receiving attention.

We do wish to solve the problem. Aside from directly contact Tech Support again, maybe I can try to help...

To clarify, does the entire screen flicker?


...just the drawing window


...just the open palettes?

Are the palettes on top of the drawing window or docked off the drawing window, but still on the screen?

Could you attach a screen shot to you next post? Use the "Switch to Full Reply Screen" and use the "File Manager" to attach a screen shot of the problematic setup.

Meanwhile, one word of advice is to try upgrading one machine to Windows Vista and test. Apparently, related problems are due to Windows XP's poor OpenGL implementation and support both internally and for PC graphics cards. This problem does not appear to continue manifesting itself on Vista machines.

This issue does not appear to affect Mac users as the OpenGL support on the Mac OS is more robust.

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I appreciate your offer of help but ask that you speak to your collagues before asking for information I have already answered and sent - Gunther Miller and Vladislav Stanev.

I am well aware that 2008 will not have any more updates, but as I have already said, we upgraded to 2008 on the advice from NNA that this would resolve the problem - but it did not and neither has 2009 - and so we won't be upgrading our licences again until this is resolved.

I will try an attach a movie that I have emailed to NNA previously otherwise I will try and send it to you direct.

Why should I pay out more money on upgrading to Vista to test your software? Besides, if you speak to our colleagues they have already replicated the problem on XP and Vista at NNA. This suggests that upgrading to Vista would not solve the problem. It would be interesting to know if NNA's XP and Vista pcs are Dell? Whilst Dell have investigated the problem and identified it as a VW problem which other pcs are affected?

The whole drawing window flickers.

We normally have the pallets minimised on the drawing window but NNA have identified that docking the palletes reduces the flickering and as a temporary solution we are doing this.

Sorry that I have posted this on several threads but I am frustrated and want to get heard - its been over 2 years - and whilst NNA promise to investigate and resolve the problem they have forgotton about it.

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Michael, VW 2009 is far superior to 2008

Vista is far better than XP and when I made that move back in VW 2008 was surprised at how good the upgrade was

Yeah and I know all you mac addicts I was really only drawing with chalk on a black board compared to you

I wonder - perhaps NNA should give you a special deal

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all you mac addicts

Is it really worse to be a Mac addict than a devotee of His Divine Lordship William Gates, the 10th incarnation of Shiva?


Hare Windows, hare Windows,

hare Gates, hare Gates.

Windows, Windows,

Gates, Gates,

Hare Gates, Hare Windows!

Edit: Bhaktivedanta Sri William Gates's surname is pronounced "gahtees". Do not forget that every penny you earn is just prasadam from Your Sweet Lord.

Edited by panta rhei
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There's a first for everything, Jeffrey... (I refrain from saying that you make me laugh every time you write.)

I've actually found VW 2009 to be remarkably free of odd errors & problems. If one can tolerate the slower rendering (RenderWorks is now at about 20% from what it used to be), the various improvements & refinements are well worth the money. One needs to spend a few hours with preferences, though. The Trade Show defaults are, by and large, counter-productive and I have quite a few old users who are not amused at all.

Technologywise, this release seems to be quite mature.

(Except for IFC! Neither Tekla Strucures nor Revit can interpret VW's IFC. Oh, Solibri can't either, but who cares - that it just the Industry Standard. NavisWorks occasionally can, which is surprising, because mostly it, I hear, fails with at least ADT and Revit. Ladies and gentlemen: place your bets on the IFC compatibility roulette. Your odds are... NIL!)

Edited by panta rhei
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Since someone suggested that the mouse might be the cause of my screen blinking, I tried some different mice, but they all use the same basic MS Optical Mouse driver. Switching from my current MS Natural Wireless Laser Mouse to my previous Wireless Optical Mouse made no difference. Then I tried a USB optical mouse, to see if the wireless lag might be at fault. But again no change.

When I first started using VW2009 with Full-Screen Cursor turned on, the crossed lines would lag behind the pointer. I thought, Oh no, here we go again. But after a restart, the cross and pointer would stay properly aligned. So this problem is off and on, and I have no idea what the cause is.

Regarding the Open GL suggestions, my graphics card is supposed to support the latest Open GL standard. However, when my screen is blinking, I am not doing any OGL rendering. In fact I'm not doing anything. The screen blinks when I open a document and just let it sit---no mousing or rendering. Is OGL still involved, even when the file is static? Only the active drawing area blinks, so the cause is limited to that part of the screen, or in my case, screens.

My Object Info Palette is normally on the second screen, but when I dock it on the primary screen, the drawing area still blinks.

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I recently was updating my Nvidia drivers and noticed the following:


OpenGL Application Issues

The following are known compatibility issues for OpenGL applications developed

under Windows XP:

? Mixed GDI and OpenGL rendering does not work.

A number of applications use GDI to render UI components and object

highlighting. This is not supported in the Windows Vista driver model.

NVIDIA recommends converting GDI rendering to OpenGL.

The following are some applications that are known to have this issue:

? Maya 7.01

? OneSpace Designer Modeling

Does anyone know the implications of this? My take on it is that you should not draw parts of the screen using GDI+ and other parts with OpenGL.

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