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ccw

VectorWorks 2009

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What is the deal with major upgrades being so expensive for VectorWorks. I have FormZ RenderZone Plus which is just as expensive as VectorWorks. However their upgrades are roughly less than half the cost of the upgrade for VectorWorks. I think that they would have more people upgrade if they weren't so expensive. I am being told the upgrade for me is $400. That is crazy. Heck, even Adobe, which I have the premium package, has the upgrade for $199. I think they(NNA) would do everything they could to gain additional customers/clients. However, having such expensive upgrades is a real turn off, especially since we all know there are going to be bugs.

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Here's another question. I know in order to do photorealistic renderings you have to have renderworks, but I have the Architect design version without renderworks. I did not get the Renderworks ad on because I have FormZ. Now why can't they (NNA) give us the capability in the design series to be able to use hatches, easily, in our 3-D models. I have read many responses to this in the forums, but they require some time. Why can't they just add it as a feature? Hatches aren't photorealistic, so I feel they should offer it as a option in any of the design series.

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You can use Vectorworks in an architectural workflow, but in my opinion the software isn't designed to facilitate it.

Object hatches aren't aligned to objects but instead to the origin of the current layer, materials can't represent themselves in both 3d line drawings and renderings.

So many things have to be drawn twice or hand built or faked. The inflexibility impedes the design process.

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I am not just talking about Renderworks. I am talking about the overall price for the upgrade from 2008 to 2009. Since I don?t have renderworks they want $700 ($400 for the upgrade to 2009 and $300 to add renderworks). I can understand the price for adding renderworks, it is the $400 that I have a problem with. Look at all software companies out there. They don?t price their upgrades real high because they want their clients to buy the upgrades. Like I said, I have the Adobe Premium design package and to upgrade to the latest and greatest is only $150. That is a good deal. How many people do you think will do that? My guess everyone! However, everyone is not going to immediately buy the upgrade to VW2009 one, because of the price and two because they know there are going to be issues. My philosophy, lower the upgrade price which gets more people to purchase it, which leads to more feedback, which leads to a more solid product. VW is GREAT, but it could be the BEST with the "Wish Lists" being implemented and the bugs being fixed. This comes from feedback, which is why companies like Adobe and Autodesk are what they are.

Edited by ccw

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I did not get the Renderworks ad on because I have FormZ. Now why can't they (NNA) give us the capability in the design series to be able to use hatches, easily, in our 3-D models.

You cant use hatches on 3D models with renderworks either, makes elevations interesting. I would love it if someone could prove me wrong.

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There's a workaround using "flat shaded" to get hatches to show up on elevations.

It requires the use of viewport overrides for classes.

The workflow is byzantine and the user is on their own in managing it.

I don't know if anyone has actually implimented it.

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Ive actually been using the "unshaded polygon" mode with the foreground set to hidden line, this seems to work OK but there should be a better way.

Brudgers what is "flat shaded"?

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A proper 2D 'rotate page' tool which doesn't just reset the origin and orientation of drawing data would be nice...

...so we can actually use the program in our office to draw buildings.

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You cant use hatches on 3D models with renderworks either, makes elevations interesting. I would love it if someone could prove me wrong.

Why not try the Hatch... command? Draw a polygon shape, run the Modify->Hatch menu and convert the resulting lines to 3D polys in a front view. This lets you specify the hatch origin, rotation and you get a cool 3D poshe effect.

hth,

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Frank, suggesting that we use the Hatch command to create siding lines for our Hidden Line rendered elevations is a work-around, not a solution.

It may be very useful for some, in the mean-time, but ultimately

creating lines or hatches on walls that work with Hidden-Line should be integral with the wall-tool.

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gmm18,

Frank's suggestion IS the current solution and is consistent with VW's current underlying technology and feature set.

Any additional capabilities can be addressed in the Wishlist forum. This list is actively referred to prior to the development cycle of any product.

This forum, this resource, is about finding real current solutions to users' immediate problems. Challenges to such solutions and functionality is welcome, but are more effective if delivered with a more reasoned tone. Otherwise, everyone ends up walking away with a bad taste in their mouth (or on their fingers?)....

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No solutions here (Don't read this post if you don't enjoy good-hearted rants).

Yes, I know and I usually play defense for VW, rather than the other way around.

I defend VW here in the forums, and I defend it and promote it every chance I get

at work and on campus. In fact some people have asked if VW pays me to do so.

I have taught workshops for dozens of students out there and have been working

on Professors to get it as an actual course.

Many people see VW as the odd one on the sidelines, so when I speak in defense

of the Mother Ship, I am sometimes frustrated by limitations and seemingly obvious

lack of features, such as having lines on your HL elevations... people ask those

questions all the time, sometimes within the first few minutes of a demo and it

is difficult when you have to start explaining tedious work-arounds right off the bat.

And yes we have discussed that particular issue in the Wish List forum extensively,

so that is documented. In terms of providing immediate solutions, you should see

my posts, 99% of them are exactly that, not rants, such as this one. It is funny that

I get a spanking by an NNA moderator, especially considering the fact that I have

almost as many posts as you and I have been here for only a year, also never been

'thanked' by an NNA moderator for any of my contributions to the VW community...

Now, back to the drawing board and I apologize to those who might have read

this despite my warning. :)

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Let me just say to everyone that I am by no means bashing VW. It is my first and only choice and will always be. I just want NNA to take note of the things that they see as being small issues really aren't. To many users they are very important concerns and should be given just as much attention as the larger ones. Otherwise keep on trucking NNA, you have created a great product.

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Tad touchy there VW guys? I've been using the software since MiniCad 3, I've used at least three other CAD software packages including ACAD - VW is it!

BUT, Let me echo GMM 18's points,

In caps.

Underlined.

In 72 bold point. Like GMM I've helped the Canadian Distributor sell many copies & upgrades - BECAUSE I LIKE VW!

Bu you VW folks need to take folks like us -who GET IT- seriously. The product is great, but it has SERIOUS shortcomings that have been added to the wishlist since; well, iduno, VW10? MiniCad8?

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Upgrading is always a business decision, first and foremost. I've purchased some software products and upgrades that pretty much paid for themselves in one job. I've seen way too many instances of architects who are pennywise and poundfoolish.

Having said that, I'm still on OSX 10.4.11 and VW2008. I need more information and need to see the product in person before being able to justify an upgrade at the moment. I may wait until 10.6 comes out next year, since I have other products like Macromedia Studio that I'll need to upgrade as well.

Edited by Kevin Shertz

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