cwailes Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 What is the deal with major upgrades being so expensive for VectorWorks. I have FormZ RenderZone Plus which is just as expensive as VectorWorks. However their upgrades are roughly less than half the cost of the upgrade for VectorWorks. I think that they would have more people upgrade if they weren't so expensive. I am being told the upgrade for me is $400. That is crazy. Heck, even Adobe, which I have the premium package, has the upgrade for $199. I think they(NNA) would do everything they could to gain additional customers/clients. However, having such expensive upgrades is a real turn off, especially since we all know there are going to be bugs. Quote Link to comment
cwailes Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 Here's another question. I know in order to do photorealistic renderings you have to have renderworks, but I have the Architect design version without renderworks. I did not get the Renderworks ad on because I have FormZ. Now why can't they (NNA) give us the capability in the design series to be able to use hatches, easily, in our 3-D models. I have read many responses to this in the forums, but they require some time. Why can't they just add it as a feature? Hatches aren't photorealistic, so I feel they should offer it as a option in any of the design series. Quote Link to comment
M.CH Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Whats wrong with buying Renderworks? Its not very expensive...... Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 You can use Vectorworks in an architectural workflow, but in my opinion the software isn't designed to facilitate it. Object hatches aren't aligned to objects but instead to the origin of the current layer, materials can't represent themselves in both 3d line drawings and renderings. So many things have to be drawn twice or hand built or faked. The inflexibility impedes the design process. Quote Link to comment
cwailes Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 (edited) I am not just talking about Renderworks. I am talking about the overall price for the upgrade from 2008 to 2009. Since I don?t have renderworks they want $700 ($400 for the upgrade to 2009 and $300 to add renderworks). I can understand the price for adding renderworks, it is the $400 that I have a problem with. Look at all software companies out there. They don?t price their upgrades real high because they want their clients to buy the upgrades. Like I said, I have the Adobe Premium design package and to upgrade to the latest and greatest is only $150. That is a good deal. How many people do you think will do that? My guess everyone! However, everyone is not going to immediately buy the upgrade to VW2009 one, because of the price and two because they know there are going to be issues. My philosophy, lower the upgrade price which gets more people to purchase it, which leads to more feedback, which leads to a more solid product. VW is GREAT, but it could be the BEST with the "Wish Lists" being implemented and the bugs being fixed. This comes from feedback, which is why companies like Adobe and Autodesk are what they are. Edited September 7, 2008 by ccw Quote Link to comment
CS1 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 I did not get the Renderworks ad on because I have FormZ. Now why can't they (NNA) give us the capability in the design series to be able to use hatches, easily, in our 3-D models. You cant use hatches on 3D models with renderworks either, makes elevations interesting. I would love it if someone could prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 There's a workaround using "flat shaded" to get hatches to show up on elevations. It requires the use of viewport overrides for classes. The workflow is byzantine and the user is on their own in managing it. I don't know if anyone has actually implimented it. Quote Link to comment
CS1 Posted September 7, 2008 Share Posted September 7, 2008 Ive actually been using the "unshaded polygon" mode with the foreground set to hidden line, this seems to work OK but there should be a better way. Brudgers what is "flat shaded"? Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I meant unshaded...flat shaded is available in ADT. Quote Link to comment
nicoloco Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 A proper 2D 'rotate page' tool which doesn't just reset the origin and orientation of drawing data would be nice... ...so we can actually use the program in our office to draw buildings. Quote Link to comment
Guest Frank Brault Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 You cant use hatches on 3D models with renderworks either, makes elevations interesting. I would love it if someone could prove me wrong. Why not try the Hatch... command? Draw a polygon shape, run the Modify->Hatch menu and convert the resulting lines to 3D polys in a front view. This lets you specify the hatch origin, rotation and you get a cool 3D poshe effect. hth, Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Frank, Your post implies that the quoted text is by me, although it is from another poster. Ben Quote Link to comment
gmm18 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Frank, suggesting that we use the Hatch command to create siding lines for our Hidden Line rendered elevations is a work-around, not a solution. It may be very useful for some, in the mean-time, but ultimately creating lines or hatches on walls that work with Hidden-Line should be integral with the wall-tool. Quote Link to comment
Jeffrey W Ouellette Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 gmm18, Frank's suggestion IS the current solution and is consistent with VW's current underlying technology and feature set. Any additional capabilities can be addressed in the Wishlist forum. This list is actively referred to prior to the development cycle of any product. This forum, this resource, is about finding real current solutions to users' immediate problems. Challenges to such solutions and functionality is welcome, but are more effective if delivered with a more reasoned tone. Otherwise, everyone ends up walking away with a bad taste in their mouth (or on their fingers?).... Quote Link to comment
gmm18 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 No solutions here (Don't read this post if you don't enjoy good-hearted rants). Yes, I know and I usually play defense for VW, rather than the other way around. I defend VW here in the forums, and I defend it and promote it every chance I get at work and on campus. In fact some people have asked if VW pays me to do so. I have taught workshops for dozens of students out there and have been working on Professors to get it as an actual course. Many people see VW as the odd one on the sidelines, so when I speak in defense of the Mother Ship, I am sometimes frustrated by limitations and seemingly obvious lack of features, such as having lines on your HL elevations... people ask those questions all the time, sometimes within the first few minutes of a demo and it is difficult when you have to start explaining tedious work-arounds right off the bat. And yes we have discussed that particular issue in the Wish List forum extensively, so that is documented. In terms of providing immediate solutions, you should see my posts, 99% of them are exactly that, not rants, such as this one. It is funny that I get a spanking by an NNA moderator, especially considering the fact that I have almost as many posts as you and I have been here for only a year, also never been 'thanked' by an NNA moderator for any of my contributions to the VW community... Now, back to the drawing board and I apologize to those who might have read this despite my warning. Quote Link to comment
cwailes Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 Let me just say to everyone that I am by no means bashing VW. It is my first and only choice and will always be. I just want NNA to take note of the things that they see as being small issues really aren't. To many users they are very important concerns and should be given just as much attention as the larger ones. Otherwise keep on trucking NNA, you have created a great product. Quote Link to comment
Jim Smith Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Tad touchy there VW guys? I've been using the software since MiniCad 3, I've used at least three other CAD software packages including ACAD - VW is it! BUT, Let me echo GMM 18's points, In caps. Underlined. In 72 bold point. Like GMM I've helped the Canadian Distributor sell many copies & upgrades - BECAUSE I LIKE VW! Bu you VW folks need to take folks like us -who GET IT- seriously. The product is great, but it has SERIOUS shortcomings that have been added to the wishlist since; well, iduno, VW10? MiniCad8? Quote Link to comment
RubenH Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Agree with Jim and GMM. On Bold and Underlined, too. Quote Link to comment
Alec Giovanni Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 CCW your lucky to pay just 700.00$, I called today for upgrade from 2008 designer to 2009 and my price was 1,113.00$....... Just frustrating ..... Quote Link to comment
Spunkmeyer Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) Upgrading is always a business decision, first and foremost. I've purchased some software products and upgrades that pretty much paid for themselves in one job. I've seen way too many instances of architects who are pennywise and poundfoolish. Having said that, I'm still on OSX 10.4.11 and VW2008. I need more information and need to see the product in person before being able to justify an upgrade at the moment. I may wait until 10.6 comes out next year, since I have other products like Macromedia Studio that I'll need to upgrade as well. Edited September 16, 2008 by Kevin Shertz Quote Link to comment
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