Is there a way to join walls?

[MaxStudio]

Is there a way to join two colinear walls that would run into each other without dragging?

I know the Wall Join tool works for Perpendicular walls but what about colinear walls?

Edited February 1, 2008 by MaxStudio

[islandmon]

During the first week of 6th grade geometry we were taught that parallel lines never converge : )

[CipesDesign]

MAX, are you talking about CO-LINEAR walls??

[michael john williams]

But they do eventually as the earth is round!

[G_Hannigan]

Longitudes (non-parallel) - yes

Latitudes (parallel) - no

[MaxStudio]

Isn't that what i said in my post above? colinear? lol

thanks Cipes

Edited February 1, 2008 by MaxStudio

[CipesDesign]

FYI & FWIW, I just tried the following in the most recent build (83388) and it worked beautifully: Colinear walls, butted up against one another, rendered perfectly (ie: there is no longer an erroneous line at their junction as there used to be). See attached screen shots:(OOPS: edit... the text in the second shot should read "FQRW"...)

Edited February 1, 2008 by CipesDesign

[D Wood]

Yes, but are they joined, Peter, are they joined?

I ask because I have often wondered how to join 2 lines similarly placed - the Compose tool doesn't seem to work on them.

Edited February 1, 2008 by D Wood

[MaxStudio]

They should create a tool for this named 'head on collision'

[CipesDesign]

David, They are not joined.

NNA, it would be a good ability to have...

But I have two questions: I'm curious why they *need* to be?? Are you wanting the ability to drag them at once? Or is there another reason?

Secondly, in most cases where this occurs you can (and perhaps should) use one wall, as opposed to two. So my question: can you give a specific example(s) of why using two walls would be necessary and/or desired?

[Chad McNeely]

David, They are not joined.

Secondly, in most cases where this occurs you can (and perhaps should) use one wall, as opposed to two. So my question: can you give a specific example(s) of why using two walls would be necessary and/or desired?

Off the top of my head:

1. Change of texture.

2. Change of height, where it is sometimes convenient to keep the typical-height walls separate from those that have been reshaped or otherwise altered in the z direction.

3. Change of construction, assuming material-specific components/cavities aren't used.

4. New versus existing, or change of lineweight or fill.

[CipesDesign]

Chad, all good points. Hopefully the powers that be are listening in...

[G_Hannigan]

David, They are not joined.

Secondly, in most cases where this occurs you can (and perhaps should) use one wall, as opposed to two. So my question: can you give a specific example(s) of why using two walls would be necessary and/or desired?

Off the top of my head:

1. Change of texture.

2. Change of height, where it is sometimes convenient to keep the typical-height walls separate from those that have been reshaped or otherwise altered in the z direction.

3. Change of construction, assuming material-specific components/cavities aren't used.

4. New versus existing, or change of lineweight or fill.

But would #'s 1,3 & 4 be possible if they were joined?

[Chad McNeely]

Joining does nothing to alter the individuality of the walls now. Why should that change if their geometry is allowed, in addition to being angled, to be co-linear?

(I actually don't see too much trouble with just placing the end of one wall at the end of the other, except when VW occasionally decides to try to join them, producing infinitely long miters running off the page. If "joining" would alleviate that, then it would be a good thing. Similarly, where what is physically constructed as "one wall" must be drawn as two, then having them both move together would be handy.)

[Chad McNeely]

Ooooh, just thought of another possible benefit of joined co-linear walls.

In the same way that a T-join to a continuous wall effectively breaks the joined side of the continuous wall into snap-able lengths, wouldn't it be swell if joining in-line walls would extend the lengths, such that the center of their combined side lengths could be snapped???

[Pat Stanford]

Chad,

That is probably the best reason for co-linear walls to join. The ability to snap to points in the wall, or to use the symbol insertion/position tools within a single wall along with moving a single object are good uses.

The previous Case 2 can be done with a single wall and Wall Peaks, but 2 walls are probably just as good in most cases.

Pat

[Pat Stanford]

Please explain and help clear up our ignorance ;-)

What would Ridgid, Semi and Flexible be and how should each one work.

Pat

[islandmon]

The worlds move on since the wall script was written 20 Years ago.Walls are now using 150Mpa concrete,You guys seem to be stuck on 10mpa Pine Framing? When you next cantilever a wall/beam over a cliff with a laminated plate glass floor and should the structure fail and collapse into the abyss.

Having designed numerous cantilevered steel reinforced concrete beams ... rest assured that the engineering has nothing at all to do with the Wall Tool or whether or not it is 20yrs old.

[Pat Stanford]

So, Chris, a couple of items.

1. I run the users group for Vectorworks here in Los Angeles. I use VectorWorks to design industrial water treatment equipment and I hardly ever use walls.

2. I personally find your comments and assumptions to be rude. Being half a world away, I doubt you have spent much time with any of the people from NNA. You are completely mischaracterizing both the company and the indiviuals.

3. You are probably right, the Wall Tool and VectorWorks was not designed for designing or doing engineering calculations on beams and poured concrete walls. I doubt it every will be the correct tool for that job. If you want something that is, I recommend that you look at AllPlan and Gehry Technologies, or perhaps, some engineering specific software that can be used in conjunction the the CAD tool of your choice.

4. You started this thread by stating that there need to be multiple different ways to join walls in VW. I asked you to explain what you want. You ranted instead. So What the F*** do you want from wall joins?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[mike m oz]

Joining colinear walls can be done by manual stretching or by adding to the wall length through the OIP.

It can also be done using the Marquee Mode of the 2D Reshape Tool:

- Select the wall you want to extend.

- Draw a marquee over the end you want to extend.

- Drag the marquee across until the gap is closed.

To do this accurately use the smart cursor cues:

- Place the 2D pointer on the end of the wall to be extended.

- Depress the mouse button and drag until you over the end of the wall to be extended to.

- Release the mouse button.

Edited February 4, 2008 by mike m oz

[mike m oz]

Chris, the wall joint types you are describing appear to come from FEA programs, and are applicable to structural analysis. Forgive me for pointing out the obvious. VectorWorks is an architectural program. It is not a structural analysis program.

For the reasons you have outlined above there would be significant risk attached to users without the necessary structural expertise doing their own structural design.

Fitness for purpose logic needs to be applied. ie. Use an appropriately capable program and an appropriately capable professional. In many jurisdictions this principle is mandated by regulations with it being a requirement that the structure of the buildings is designed and certified by a qualified structural engineer.

Postscript:

As I understand it the whole process of IFC is intended to make the exchange of model information between programs straightforward so that a VectorWorks model can be sent to a structural engineer for analysis and the results fed back to the VectorWorks user. For those interested in knowing more about IFC the Solibri website is quite informative. http://www.solibri.com/

Edited February 4, 2008 by mike m oz