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greenmeadow

Can you use viewports to make details in VW12.

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I was told by the VW salesman that I could make viewports of plans to create details like other CAD programs. That is, create plan details at a larger scale to show more info that would be unreadable at the parent 1/4" plan scale. I have figured out the viewport part but since viewports are not on a "design layer" and cannot be placed on one, how do you ever show them on your actual working drawings sheets which in VW 12 are called "views" . Sheet layers have a default scale of 1-1 and can't be changed and can't contain other layers so i can't use them for drafting either. Are viewports only for non working drawing purposes? How do people make details in VW12?

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Sheet layers can contain viewports. Those viewports can be cropped, modified, and detailed. The objects in viewports can also have attributes, assigned by class, overwritten with a different style on a viewport by viewport basis. In addition, each viewport on a sheet layer can have a different scale, making details on sheet layers next to a floor plan practical.

Here's how I would draw a wall detail.

Create a viewport of the plan - if you need to show the wall detail next to the overall plan.

Duplicate the viewport on the same sheet layer with a view looking into the width of a wall. Set the scale of this viewport to a larger size, so it appears enlarged. Crop the viewport so you only see the wall in elevation (or any other details). Exit the crop mode and edit the annotation part of the viewport. Here, use standard 2D tools or the Repetitive Unit tool to draft the components and any other details needed. Add a scale or detail marker if necessary, and exit the viewport.

If you don't want a wall detail, follow the same steps, cropping the area you want to see. Use the viewport scale options in the Obj Info palette to adjust the scale accordingly.

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As I said in my post i made the cropped view port at a larger scale than the original but they are on "sheet layer" which are incompatible with regular layers that compose a drawing.( one problem here is tha VW has changed the definition of a sheet) These viewports are on a sheet layer and are uneditable and a window says they can not be pasted to a layer. On this "sheet layer" all layers that make up these viewports are grayed so nothing I see on the viewport can be selected for editings and sheet layers don't have any scale. So how can the viewports be used with the actual working drawings for the project when such drawings are traditional composed of a "view"s of a real layer. MJM

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As Katie said (above): Use the ANNOTATION space within the VP to add further details, notes, whatever. Those annotations then "belong" to that VP and will move, copy, rotate, etc. along with the VP itself.

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Remember also that "Annotations" is a bit of a misnomer, implying text only when in fact it refers to anything 2D that you want to add to a viewport without affecting the design layers.

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greenmeadow

Try what I mentioned in the post above. If that doesn't clear the question asked, review the section on editing Viewports in the online user's guide or manual for more specific information.

If you would like assistance with a specific project, I will be happy to arrange for a customized individual training session.

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As I said in my post i made the cropped view port at a larger scale than the original but they are on "sheet layer" which are incompatible with regular layers that compose a drawing.( one problem here is tha VW has changed the definition of a sheet) These viewports are on a sheet layer and are uneditable and a window says they can not be pasted to a layer.

Hold your horses... Yes, there has been a "paradigm shift". Yes, we all hated it originally - no matter how awkward our systems were, they worked. And now we have to learn to understand a better way.

A sheet layer is indeed 1:1 - but so is the entire design. Layer scales are just smoke and mirrors. Consider a sheet layer as a "design" or "layout" of the drawing - that transient means of communication.

Each viewport has its own scale. Annotations are done in the viewport in scale 1:1 in relation to The Design and shown on the sheet layer in whatever scale we choose for the viewport.

Trust me: I'd be the first and most vocal user to complain if there'd be anything conceptually wrong with sheet layers and viewports. I'm a VERY old user and HATE any changes - unless they are significant improvements. Viewports are.

I'd encourage you to get a couple of hours of training, if you can't figure it out yourself, pressed with deadlines and stuff. It took "even" me quite a while.

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This is a great discussion.

It has been interesting to watch how the old VW hands in my office have struggled with the sheet layers more than those of use who have more experience in other CAD programs. But they have all come around. It may take a different kind of set up, but the sheet layer function is great.

The one thing I would like to bring up is that while Petri is correct that layer scale is smoke and mirrors it is still something we seem to be stuck with.

Please correct me if I am wrong. We investigated setting up our design layers in 1:1 and there were a couple of issues. Problems that came up included too much zooming when moving between sheet and design layer, hatch scale issues and most critically text size issues. For example the space tool will not allow any text larger than 48 point. For a 1:1 drawing text is much larger than that.

So while design layer scale isn't really needed anymore, it is unavoidable.

Right?

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So while design layer scale isn't really needed anymore, it is unavoidable.

Right?

Right, but it is still just a display/printing scale. Consider it as a zoom factor of sorts, a convenience if you like. There is of course no point in using 1:1 as the "apparent scale" of design layers. It can be done (apart from certain situations), but there's no advantage in it.

I certainly can relate to the "old hands"!

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I don't see anything conceptually wrong with sheet layers. A guy sent me an entire project set up in sheet layers as an example. However, it was all "canned " CAD work .What used to be called paste-up or pin drafting. Sheet layers were presentations of "photographs" ( viewports) of original pre-made CAD work on design layers. In my case 90% my work is unique and I need to create design layers to create the drawings ( my old sheets have several scales on them) Are people now "drafting" at one-to-one scale on sheet layers rather than using the old design layers?

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Not at all. I usually draft in 1/4" in design layers, then create VP's to place on sheet layers for printed (or PDF'd) sheets. SHEET LAYERS are not really intended to be anything more than a "blank sheet" onto which we place other objects (mainly VP's). Trying to actually draft on a sheet layer is iffy, at best. Among other things you wouldn't be able to have any "z" values for anything...

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Please clarify what you mean by "canned". Using the same workflow, what would prevent you from using original work in place of the canned content? If you are drafting in different scales you are using different layers. Set the visibility of each viewport to show or hide layers so the viewport reflects the design layer, then use viewports for details and change the scale in the viewport. I don't always use viewports but when I do, I draw in the scale of the the individual viewport except for details.

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While we are on the subject (or were) of details, if one is creating a detail from scratch rather than deriving it from a plan or section, would you:

a. draw it on any design layer, then viewport? Drawbacks are that it would be tiny in relation to the other plans on that layer (if one used the floor plan layer for instance);

b. Set up a detail design layer (at another scale?) for details only, then viewport or

c. Draw only in an annotated viewport?

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I work almost entirely 1/4? scale and with layers rather than sheets as well. View ports on sheets expedite sharing (via email) various components of the project with builders and clients that don?t have access to large format printers. Being able to choose a different page setup (and scale) without affecting the original design layer is nice, and you can do multiple letter-size set-ups and convert to PDFs very quickly in viewports on sheets.

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While we are on the subject (or were) of details, if one is creating a detail from scratch rather than deriving it from a plan or section, would you:

a. draw it on any design layer, then viewport? Drawbacks are that it would be tiny in relation to the other plans on that layer (if one used the floor plan layer for instance);

b. Set up a detail design layer (at another scale?) for details only, then viewport or

c. Draw only in an annotated viewport?

It really depends on what you're drawing. Don't think you'd ever use C though (drawing in a blank viewport?).

When doing section details, for instance, you might find it useful to draw sections or part sections on a design layer (at whatever scale) and then viewporting the various bits that you want present as details. This is good for keeping your details in context.

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My own answer, from a discussion with another user and actual further thought on the subject:

Set up detail design layers at various scales, draw and note the details completely on those layers.

You can save and reuse the details since they are not project dependent (derived froma plan), then viewport them to the necessary sheet layers.

PS: The use of scaled design layers helps keep the detailing tools at the proper scales when using viewports. Some elements may not scale up properly if drawn at one scale and viewported at another.

The experienced among us will say, yeah, so? but this might help the less fortunate.

Variations?

Edited by blackdogarch

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Here's what I've instigated in our office, which is working really well for us.

We have top level "Shell" Class which we divide generally into Floors, Walls, Roofs, etc, and sub-divide a little. These Classes get used for 1:50 floor plans, sections, eles, etc.

Then we have a top level "Component" Class which we divide up into all the different components that might get drawn in a 1:10 detail (e.g. insulation, brickwork, wall tie, etc.)

When we've drawn our plans and sections we Workgroup Reference these into a new file and trace over the junctions to create our details (using the Components class), which we then create 1:10 Viewports out of and turn off the plans/sections that we WGR'd.

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please note the attached images

my sections are drawn on the design layers and are set up in a projection drawing system. (no 3d used) this is the mose accurate way to draw in 2d.

however, i want it to be organized different on the construction drawings. hence i "chop" up my sections w/ vp and place them on the sheet layers. then i add dims & notes. my building sections are complete w/ detail. i can vp any part and get a 3" detail. most of my sections are made up of smaller symbols so i only draw a detail once and then use them as building blocks to make my building section.

Edited by digitalmechanics

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The problem I find with using detailed information to create sections is that it can make sections overly detailed and thus difficult to read and slow to edit, or you end up needing a complicated configuration of Class settings to turn off high detail information.

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understood.

each component of my details are in classes

Detail-Concrete

Detail-Trim

Detail-Framing

etc

i use my sections as proofs. when i can follow how it is built from the footing to the roof peak and back down the other side then i know it is done.

also, the sections "prove" my elevations. my elevations are directly drawn over my section and i get the placement of trim etc. from the details of my sections.

if i find errors in my elevations, i can easly retrace my work back to the section then to the master section.

hence, turning off classes in building section vp is not a big deal for me. really you just need to do one and then use the eyedropper tool for the rest.

as for the slow to edit. my sections are made up of symbols. i only draw one footing and foundation wall, make it a symbol and use it for all my building sections.

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I'm with you Digitalmechanics, I actually generate my elevations off of the rough section and then generate finished sections and details from that. I'll have the sections showing alongside of the elevations and then pull viewports off of the rough sections for my details. That way, like you said, I can figure out why parts of the elevations are where they are down the road and also change the elevations to refect detail changes.

Edited by iBagwan

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