2d symbol gets rendered twice in Horizontal Section Viewport (at certain zoom levels only)

[line-weight]

This may be a little obscure, because to start with I'm trying to do something which might not be officially "allowed": I have created a 3d symbol, the 3d component of which contains another 3d symbol, plus a 2d symbol set to "page units" rather than "world units".

 

(This is to allow me to have a symbol which I can choose to display as 3d geometry to "world" scale in some viewports, and as a 2d symbol to "page" scale in other viewports. This is one, but not the only reason that I am not putting the 2d geometry into the container symbol's 2d component.)

 

I wasn't sure this would work, but it seems that it does, at least in a top/plan viewport, where I am only displaying the 2d symbol (the 3d part is turned off by class).

 

However something strange happens in a Horizontal Section Viewport, because if I update the viewport at certain zoom levels, the 2d symbol gets rendered twice, once at "world" scale and once at "page" scale.

 

The same problem doesn't occur in the top/plan viewport.

 

Hopefully the screen recording below clarifies. I have attached a file containing the symbol too.

 

 

 

2dsymbol_HSVP.vwx

[zoomer]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

do something which might not be officially "allowed"

 

If these are 3 independent Symbols, I personally do not see anything (risky) "recursive".

The Scale thing sounds risky but no clue if it should be a problem or not.

 

I just wonder why there are 3D things in a thing that looks to be (used) so 2D only ?

[line-weight]

9 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

If these are 3 independent Symbols, I personally do not see anything (risky) "recursive".

The Scale thing sounds risky but no clue if it should be a problem or not.

 

I just wonder why there are 3D things in a thing that looks to be (used) so 2D only ?

 

If you're interested in the purpose of this, it's discussed in this thread...

[zoomer]

Yes, I found that thread 5 mins later and now understand your intention.

 

I could imagine that object's world scale settings inside Symbols could

cause problems. But not sure if it is a WAD or wanted that those appear

duplicated.

[Gadzooks]

7 hours ago, line-weight said:

I have created a 3d symbol, the 3d component of which contains another 3d symbol…………..

The beast is risen - Looking to see how this turns out. So pleased that you’ve grabbed this and are looking at the options (we should all be doing that).

 

I also use a variation of the 2d (top/plan view) and 3d (wall elevation/height) hybrid symbol for domestic switches/lighting/appliances.

 

Go, go @line-weight
 

 

 

Edited March 17 by Gadzooks

[line-weight]

4 hours ago, zoomer said:

Yes, I found that thread 5 mins later and now understand your intention.

 

I could imagine that object's world scale settings inside Symbols could

cause problems. But not sure if it is a WAD or wanted that those appear

duplicated.

Because it happens only when I update the viewport at certain zoom levels, it seems unlikely that it's intended behaviour.

[Matt Panzer]

On 3/17/2024 at 7:10 PM, line-weight said:

Because it happens only when I update the viewport at certain zoom levels, it seems unlikely that it's intended behaviour.

 

I would say this is unintended behavior but I also don't think the mixing of world and page scale symbols is officially supported either.  I do, however, see why you want to do it and wonder how we might be able to better solve the problem in the future.  If there's a way to reproduce the same display/zooming issue with more typical cases, I think it'd warrant a bug report and get more attention.

[line-weight]

The ideal solution might involve hybrid symbols being able to have a "symbolic 2d" component (that could be page-scaled) as well as the "top" component currently available.

 

Then you'd need to be able to switch display of those symbolic components on/off per viewport.

 

But just like with regular 2d components we could do with more granular control, that is potentially per object or object type rather than just a global viewport setting.

[Matt Panzer]

42 minutes ago, line-weight said:

The ideal solution might involve hybrid symbols being able to have a "symbolic 2d" component (that could be page-scaled) as well as the "top" component currently available.

 

Right.  I was thinking something along those lines

 

42 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Then you'd need to be able to switch display of those symbolic components on/off per viewport.

 

But just like with regular 2d components we could do with more granular control, that is potentially per object or object type rather than just a global viewport setting.

 

Yeah.  Controlling these per viewport and possibly per object per viewport should be considered.  We did consider adding per object per viewport overriding of 2D component when the task was first designed but wanted to limit the complexity until we had good use cases.  Having a complete feature is important but we have to be careful not to over design things that users never want to deal with.  We can always add features but taking them away later is not so easy without potentially changing files brought forward from previous versions.

[line-weight]

Having more control over when 2d components are/aren't displayed would certainly remove a few HSVP headaches for me.

 

The main one: I find VW door object 2d representations just about tolerable in floorplans, but not VW window object 2d representations. I'd like to be able to say, show doors with 2d components but not windows. Current solution is simply not to use VW windows at all, and build my own.

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, line-weight said:

I find VW door object 2d representations just about tolerable in floorplans, but not VW window object 2d representations. Current solution is simply not to use VW windows at all, and build my own.

 

It would be good if we could more usefully do something with the 'Edit 2D Components' option for Windows (+ Doors). It would be a pretty useful feature if you could edit the 2D graphics for a Window (or Door) + save it as part of the style, notwithstanding the fact that those graphics would be fixed + wouldn't change when you edited the width to the PIO or it's position in the Wall. That would be a trade-off I'd be willing to accept. A lot of my Window styles are fixed widths anyway.

 

At the moment I believe you can only edit the 2D components of Doors/Windows if there are unstyled + on an object by object basis.

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

It would be good if we could more usefully do something with the 'Edit 2D Components' option for Windows (+ Doors). It would be a pretty useful feature if you could edit the 2D graphics for a Window (or Door) + save it as part of the style, notwithstanding the fact that those graphics would be fixed + wouldn't change when you edited the width to the PIO or it's position in the Wall. That would be a trade-off I'd be willing to accept. A lot of my Window styles are fixed widths anyway.

 

At the moment I believe you can only edit the 2D components of Doors/Windows if there are unstyled + on an object by object basis.

 

Actually, you can Edit the 2D Component for a Style and make it By Style in the Plug-in Object Style Options.  As you stated, it will cause them to remain static and will not update with parameter changes.

[Tom W.]

25 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Actually, you can Edit the 2D Component for a Style and make it By Style in the Plug-in Object Style Options.

 

Ok I never realised that thank you! What I have done several times before is edit the 2D component of an unstyled Window then convert it into a style but when you do this, the edited 2D component doesn't get saved in the style. This is contrary to what you'd expect + led me to believe that you couldn't save edited 2D components in the style. What I can see now is that if I find that same style in the OIP, right-click on it + select 'Edit 2D Components' then immediately exit again, this has the effect of saving those edited 2D graphics within the style settings. Alternatively, I could create the styled Window first then generate the custom 2D graphics afterwards by right-clicking on it in the RM.

 

I can see the '2D Components' check box in the PIO Style Options now. I always ignored this previously + never thought to find out what it did.

 

Thanks for the heads-up.

[Matt Panzer]

2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Ok I never realised that thank you! What I have done several times before is edit the 2D component of an unstyled Window then convert it into a style but when you do this, the edited 2D component doesn't get saved in the style. This is contrary to what you'd expect + led me to believe that you couldn't save edited 2D components in the style. What I can see now is that if I find that same style in the OIP, right-click on it + select 'Edit 2D Components' then immediately exit again, this has the effect of saving those edited 2D graphics within the style settings. Alternatively, I could create the styled Window first then generate the custom 2D graphics afterwards by right-clicking on it in the RM.

 

I can see the '2D Components' check box in the PIO Style Options now. I always ignored this previously + never thought to find out what it did.

 

Thanks for the heads-up.

You’re welcome!

I agree that you’d expect a user defined 2D component to be saved with the style when created from the object. I don’t think this would be intentional but it might be due to some technical limitation in the current style system.