Representation of Window Sills in Masonry Walls - 2D

[doug shaffer]

Hello -

 

I have had this problem for many years and many versions of Vectorworks Architect.  I am now using the latest version of VWA 2024.

 

I can get the window with trims to cut multi-component walls as I desire but as soon as I turn on the "Sills" everything gets screwed up.  Attached are a couple of screen captures that describe the problem more clearly.  This seems like a glitch that has never been addressed.  Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong?

 

Any help you can offer is appreciated.

 

Thanks -

[Matt Hall]

 

We are having real issues with the sill as well

 

the sill wants to be within the jamb, not the entire window

 

we are also using shared project files and get a lot of crashing while we save and commit.  Seems to happen after we work with walls and windows.

when you crash while committing everyone gets locked out of the project file and we need to create a new project file from somones working file,  losing the work that had not been committed.

 

We have had doors and window randomly disappear as well

 

We jumped into the wall and window upgrades and love what they can do now.  But we have lost days of work scratching our heads and rebuilding files that seem to be unstable.  I think its about the walls and doors windows

 

any thoughts 

 

 

 

[JuanP]

@doug shaffer and @Matt Hall Could you send me the files experiencing these issues via DM? I want to submit them to R+D. Thanks!

[doug shaffer]

Hi, Juan -

 

I just sent the file.  Let me know if you need anything else.  I appreciate you and your team addressing this.

 

Best -

 

Doug

[Matt Hall]

Juan,

 

just sent you a file

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[JuanP]

Thank you for the files - I have reported the issue under # VB-199811 (internal database) and will share updates as they become available.

[Matt Panzer]

@Matt Hall,

 

We can reproduce this issue and will take a closer look.  In the meantime, you might be able to use this method to get what you're after:

 

 

 

[Matt Hall]

Any thoughts on a work around for this condition?

 

or is there something I am missing?

 

 

 

[Matt Panzer]

2 hours ago, Matt Hall said:

Any thoughts on a work around for this condition?

 

or is there something I am missing?

 

 

 

 

I believe this is more of a reset issue (which is a bug currently being looked at).

Try selecting the window and use the Move command to move it by zero to force it to reset.  Doest it correct itself after that?

[CathyM]

I have this issue as well, with sills on it all goes to pot! Its diving me nuts!

 

And its started doing this as well where the sill seems to be unconstrained!

[CathyM]

On 10/9/2023 at 7:47 PM, Matt Panzer said:

 

I believe this is more of a reset issue (which is a bug currently being looked at).

Try selecting the window and use the Move command to move it by zero to force it to reset.  Doest it correct itself after that?

That doesnt work I'm afraid

[Matt Panzer]

Have to updated to VW 20224 Update 1?  That problem should be resolved in that version.

[Matt Hall]

I have updated but not attempted to retry,  I will give it a shot when I have a moment, Thank you

[doug shaffer]

On 10/13/2023 at 1:09 PM, Matt Panzer said:

Have to updated to VW 20224 Update 1?  That problem should be resolved in that version.

Hi, Matt P. -

 

To clarify, are you saying that the VW 2024 Update 1 should fix the issue that I originally posted about?  (see first message in this topic)

 

If so, nothing has changed for me since I installed Update 1.  And if I rotate the wall containing the window the sills get totally screwed up and I have to move it 0" to get it to reset as you described earlier.  I also noticed that if you copy the window, paste it in place outside of the wall then drag to insert back in to the wall (or a different wall), the offset is changed to 0".  Update 1 did nothing to change window problems as far as I can tell.  See attached screen capture.

 

This and the complex window mullion issue are critical issues that need to be addressed asap.  Any timeline for a solution?

 

Thanks -

 

Doug

 

[Matt Panzer]

5 hours ago, doug shaffer said:

Hi, Matt P. -

 

To clarify, are you saying that the VW 2024 Update 1 should fix the issue that I originally posted about?  (see first message in this topic)

 

If so, nothing has changed for me since I installed Update 1.  And if I rotate the wall containing the window the sills get totally screwed up and I have to move it 0" to get it to reset as you described earlier.  I also noticed that if you copy the window, paste it in place outside of the wall then drag to insert back in to the wall (or a different wall), the offset is changed to 0".  Update 1 did nothing to change window problems as far as I can tell.  See attached screen capture.

 

This and the complex window mullion issue are critical issues that need to be addressed asap.  Any timeline for a solution?

 

Thanks -

 

Doug

 

 

I agree that these are all critical issues.  The issues you describe that require an additional reset should all be fixed for 2024 Update 2 (scheduled to be release before the end of November).

 

The issue you describe moving a window out and back into a wall having a different offset sounds like it's working as designed.  The Insert Location and Offset setting in the Plug-in Object Options (Or Plug-in Object Style Options) dialog determine these.  These setting are insertion settings only - meaning the object always inserts with those settings. Once the window is in the wall, those settings can be changed in the Object Info palette for the inserted window.  However, the when the window is removed from the wall, those settings are lost.  There are technical reasons it behaves this way.  I would recommend looking into using the wall and wall closure insert location (in the wall style settings) and possible setting the window style to use the wall or wall closure insert location "by style".  Once you understand how it works and set up your wall, for, and window style up, your door and window styles just do the right thing when placed in different wall styles.

[doug shaffer]

10 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

I agree that these are all critical issues.  The issues you describe that require an additional reset should all be fixed for 2024 Update 2 (scheduled to be release before the end of November).

 

The issue you describe moving a window out and back into a wall having a different offset sounds like it's working as designed.  The Insert Location and Offset setting in the Plug-in Object Options (Or Plug-in Object Style Options) dialog determine these.  These setting are insertion settings only - meaning the object always inserts with those settings. Once the window is in the wall, those settings can be changed in the Object Info palette for the inserted window.  However, the when the window is removed from the wall, those settings are lost.  There are technical reasons it behaves this way.  I would recommend looking into using the wall and wall closure insert location (in the wall style settings) and possible setting the window style to use the wall or wall closure insert location "by style".  Once you understand how it works and set up your wall, for, and window style up, your door and window styles just do the right thing when placed in different wall styles.

That all makes sense, Matt.  Thanks for your help!

Edited October 27, 2023 by doug shaffer
misspelling

[doug shaffer]

It appears that VW Update 2 did not address this window issue.  Is that correct?  

 

Thanks -

 

Doug

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, doug shaffer said:

It appears that VW Update 2 did not address this window issue.  Is that correct?  

 

Thanks -

 

Doug

 

Correct.  This bug (VB-199811) is not yet resolved.

[fabrica]

the window cill won't show correctly in plan if you select an extension to the window cill - 
with and without window cill extension option below? (using update 2 also)

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, fabrica said:

the window cill won't show correctly in plan if you select an extension to the window cill - 
with and without window cill extension option below? (using update 2 also)

 

Can you attache a VWX file with that window in it?

[fabrica]

@Matt Panzer file attached 

wall.vwx

[Matt Panzer]

On 12/2/2023 at 3:10 AM, fabrica said:

@Matt Panzer file attached 

wall.vwx 304.44 kB · 0 downloads

 

Thanks for the file. I see the problem as well and reported it (VB-200905).

A workaround is to select the "Use wall closure" option in the Plug-in Object Options for the window.

[fabrica]

if using a corner window and 'use wall closure' then cills are even more messed up! 

 

second image is without wall closure.... slightly better !

[Matt Panzer]

2 hours ago, fabrica said:

if using a corner window and 'use wall closure' then cills are even more messed up! 

 

second image is without wall closure.... slightly better !

 

Thank you for bringing this to our attention!

I am able to reproduce this issue as well.

Bug reported (VB-200911).

[Matt Hall]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:51 AM, Matt Hall said:

Any thoughts on a work around for this condition?

 

or is there something I am missing?

 

 

 

When I change the wall closure stetting the wall opening goes to the outside of the frame as shown above

the fix

If I copy to another document, duplicate the wall with the widow, covert the copy wall to unstyled, fix the wall closure, then create new wall style and name it the same as the original, then copy it into the original document to overide the wall style in the original document then it looks right in plan.  Simple?

 

The walls were created in a VW 2023 document.  We have had several issues with editing door and window styles after upgrading to VW2024.