A way to make a variable Extrude - ¿ Use a PIO ?

[Elite Exhibits]

A way to make a variable Extrude - ¿ Use a PIO ?

 

 

Intent is to have a series of pre drawn 2D shapes that equate to various in stock aluminum extrusions.

 

Symbols would be created with one of the pre drawn 2D shapes Extruded, or Extrude along path.

 

When needed, it would be great if there was a way to select a different one of the pre drawn 2D shapes and have the end result show a revised Symbol, without the need to Edit the Symbol, and edit the extrude inside.

 

We already realize that the pre drawn 2D shapes can not be Symbols, as one is NOT able to extrude a symbol.

 

Suggestions ?

 

Peter 

[markdd]

Yes, make a Group (blue) Symbol. Create a Symbol from a drawn shape and in the Symbol options, check Convert to Group. As long as the shape is one object it will be added to the design layer as a single shape object and not inside a group or a symbol.

 

I use this workflow all the time when creating multiple extrude along path objects of the same profile.

Edited August 11, 2023 by markdd

[Tom W.]

51 minutes ago, Elite Exhibits said:

A way to make a variable Extrude - ¿ Use a PIO ?

 

 

Intent is to have a series of pre drawn 2D shapes that equate to various in stock aluminum extrusions.

 

Symbols would be created with one of the pre drawn 2D shapes Extruded, or Extrude along path.

 

When needed, it would be great if there was a way to select a different one of the pre drawn 2D shapes and have the end result show a revised Symbol, without the need to Edit the Symbol, and edit the extrude inside.

 

We already realize that the pre drawn 2D shapes can not be Symbols, as one is NOT able to extrude a symbol.

 

Suggestions ?

 

Peter 

 

I may be misunderstanding what you're asking but have you looked at the Framing Member tool using Custom Profiles? Straight Extrudes only though, not EAPs.

[Elite Exhibits]

@markdd Thanks much ...

 

Need the Symbol Component, as that is what we Inventory by (Worksheet).

My understanding: Blue Symbols, are no longer countable Symbols when they are placed on the drawing.

     (Please correct me if I am wrong on this assumption)

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

[markdd]

You are right. What about attaching a record to the shape inside the symbol? Or even the symbol in the resource manager? I think the shape might take on the record when it is ungrouped. Certainly worth a try. 
 

I have never tried this but if the shape is used as a profile within an extrude along path, then does the profile still carry the record. If it does then you will be able to count the record in a worksheet.

 

edit: just tried this and based on your question, this will work. The profile shapes of Extrude along path objects will retain record data. Therefore you will be able to process the data as you describe. Just make sure that you are looking inside plugins when you define the search criteria.

Edited August 12, 2023 by markdd

[michaelk]

13 hours ago, Elite Exhibits said:

A way to make a variable Extrude - ¿ Use a PIO ?

 

 

Intent is to have a series of pre drawn 2D shapes that equate to various in stock aluminum extrusions.

 

Symbols would be created with one of the pre drawn 2D shapes Extruded, or Extrude along path.

 

When needed, it would be great if there was a way to select a different one of the pre drawn 2D shapes and have the end result show a revised Symbol, without the need to Edit the Symbol, and edit the extrude inside.

 

We already realize that the pre drawn 2D shapes can not be Symbols, as one is NOT able to extrude a symbol.

 

Suggestions ?

 

Peter 

I think it's possible.

 

The attached plug in will create an extrude of a parametric length.  It will use the geometry in the symbol named in the OIP as the profile.

This is just a proof of concept.  No error checking.   If the symbol is hybrid or 3D it probably fails.

 

I think the EAP version could also be made to work.  But not tonight :-).

 

Extrude Test.vso.zip

[Tom W.]

39 minutes ago, michaelk said:

I think it's possible.

 

The attached plug in will create an extrude of a parametric length.  It will use the geometry in the symbol named in the OIP as the profile.

This is just a proof of concept.  No error checking.   If the symbol is hybrid or 3D it probably fails.

 

I think the EAP version could also be made to work.  But not tonight :-).

 

Extrude Test.vso.zip 3.77 kB · 0 downloads

 

Very nice! But what is benefit over Framing Member...?

[Elite Exhibits]

@michaelk This is what the doctor ordered ... Much appreciated ! (See attached)

 

@Tom W. Please and Thank You - clue me in if this is what the Framing Member tool already does. 

 

 

Attached Example:  Aluminum extruded frame components exists for graphic projects in Single and Double Face profiles. These typical 2D Symbols are show in opposite corners. (Green and Blue for clarification) - In the center is a Persp View of an Extrude Test Object. The Extrude Test.vso Plug In (above) allows the VW extrusion to be designed, (based on a 2D Symbol) and then the extrude / profile can be changed when needed, by selecting a different 2D VW Symbol from the OIP. Very Slick! 

 

Symbol naming Convention speeds the process - original location of the 2D Symbol, determines placement in the extrude, and therefore where a different 2D Symbol is located, if the intent (as demonstrated) is to have them swap out as though the design started from scratch. 

 

Thank You Again !

 

Peter

[line-weight]

Structural members can pretty much do this can't they? Although I have a feeling there is some bugginess when you use custom profiles.

 

If we could have something similar for extrude along path, that would be rather handy...

Edited August 17, 2023 by line-weight

[Tom W.]

3 hours ago, Elite Exhibits said:

@Tom W. Please and Thank You - clue me in if this is what the Framing Member tool already does. 

 

Yes Framing Member is similar except it creates hybrid object with Top/Plan representation plus you can control length, pitch, roll angle, beginning + end mitres + bevels, etc parametrically in OIP. Plus as @line-weight says the Structural Member tool does more or less the same thing too, with even more settings... The advantage of Structural Members is they can be stood up vertically whereas Framing Members can't... In both cases you can save the profile symbols in the appropriate user folders for access from any file whenever you use the tool. You don't need to remember the symbol name, you choose the symbol from the Resource Selector.

[Elite Exhibits]

@Tom W.

 

Many Thanks ...

 

Will be testing it this afternoon

 

Peter

[michaelk]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

If we could have something similar for extrude along path, that would be rather handy...

 

I'm sure it's possible.  It was late at night when I did the extrude plug-in and I tried to do a EAP plug-in as well.  I got caught up trying to allow it to be non-planar.  If you force the EAP to be on some plane I think even my scripting skills are adequate.  

 

It would be cool if:

1. The plug in was smart enough to ignore any 3D geometry
2. The plug in was smart enough to allow more than one shape in the profile symbol
3. The plug in allowed multiple symbols in each extrude/EAP.

 

[Elite Exhibits]

@Tom W.

 

The Structural Tool appears to be a good built in solution.

 

Ironically, I would never have thought it was an option. Even after reading and re reading the VW Help file. That Custom  option (as is typical of late with VW... ) is nicely hidden away.  

 

Thanks again 

 

Peter 

 

 

Still waiting to see what EAP magic @michaelk concocts in the late night lab ...

[line-weight]

One of the frustrations of EAP is that you can't use it to extrude several profiles along the same path, without making duplicate EAPs. And then if you want to change the path...you have change it in each one.

 

But if an EAP could use a symbol for the path...

[Tom W.]

10 minutes ago, line-weight said:

One of the frustrations of EAP is that you can't use it to extrude several profiles along the same path, without making duplicate EAPs. And then if you want to change the path...you have change it in each one.

 

But if an EAP could use a symbol for the path...

 

I think I understand what you mean but could you give an example?

[michaelk]

@Elite Exhibits this is really rough, but the basic functionality is there.

 

Now for the EAP version…

Extrude Beta 1.vso Extrude Plug In Test 2.vwx

[line-weight]

14 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

I think I understand what you mean but could you give an example?

 

For example... say I want to make a representation of a particular window frame. I make the path a simple rectangle, and the profile the cross section of the window frame. This is a quick way to make a rectangular window frame with a custom profile. And if i want to then make another window, same frame profile but different size/shape, then all I need to do is make a copy and edit the path to the desired size/shape.

 

But... what if I want to make a simple casement window. There is an outer fixed frame and the inner frame that makes the opening casement and holds the glazing. It would be nice if I could simply use an EAP again, with the two frame sections in the EAP "profile" but this is not allowed - I'm only allowed one object in there. So I'm forced to do this with two EAPs, one for outer frame and one for inner frame. And if I want to make a version of this window that's a different size/shape then I have to go into each EAP and adjust the path in each individually.

 

If the EAPs could use a symbol for the path, then I could have my two EAPs, both using that same symbol as the path, and I could simply edit the path to a different size/shape and the two EAPs would update in sync with each other. Obviously the more complex the assembly, say you want more than two extruded profiles following the same path, the more benefit of being able to do this.

[Tom W.]

2 hours ago, line-weight said:

It would be nice if I could simply use an EAP again, with the two frame sections in the EAP "profile" but this is not allowed - I'm only allowed one object in there. So I'm forced to do this with two EAPs, one for outer frame and one for inner frame.

 

You can do this already can't you?

 

This is 9 separate polylines:

 

Resultant EAP:

 

Path resized:

 

Probably not the greatest choice of profile as VW is struggling with all the vertices but it was what I had to hand...

[line-weight]

29 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

You can do this already can't you?

 

This is 9 separate polylines:

 

Resultant EAP:

 

Path resized:

 

Probably not the greatest choice of profile as VW is struggling with all the vertices but it was what I had to hand...

 

Hrm - I think this is my memory being unreliable.

 

Is it in fact that the issue is that those polygons can't each be in a different class, or have a different textures applied? So therefore if you want to make a window frame with different finishes inside & out, this is when you need to make separate EAPs?

 

If I'm right about that then in your example above, the thermal break portions of the window frame can't be rendered in a different colour/texture from the metal bits.

 

Other examples would be where I want to make a wall-coping assembly that involves a couple of different components in different materials, say something like this:

 

 

in principle the EAP tool might seem quick way of applying this all the way along a parapet top but not if the concrete coping, the copper pieces, the grout, the timber fillet all have to be rendered the same. That would apply in section too.

[Tom W.]

11 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Is it in fact that the issue is that those polygons can't each be in a different class, or have a different textures applied? So therefore if you want to make a window frame with different finishes inside & out, this is when you need to make separate EAPs?

 

If I'm right about that then in your example above, the thermal break portions of the window frame can't be rendered in a different colour/texture from the metal bits.

 

Yes this is correct + I did wonder if this was kind of what you were getting at in your original posts. The final EAP is a single object which can only be in one class + have one set of attributes. So you'd have to duplicate the EAP + break it up into separate objects in order to class/render them separately which takes us back to your original point.

 

I am sure @michaelk is taking all this in + applying it to his programming... 🙂 It would certainly make for a very useful tool if you could generate several different EAPs from a single path + be able to edit that path + all the EAPs respond accordingly. Or go in + edit/replace individual profiles.

[michaelk]

OK.  This works well enough to test!

 

 

EAP Beta 1.vso

[Tom W.]

Thanks Michael what is the best way to set up the alignment of the symbols relative to the path? I think the symbol geometry is centred on the path regardless of the symbol insertion point: is that correct? I have tired moving the 2D geometry around inside the symbol but it doesn't seem to affect the alignment of the geometry in the EAP. I can Cmd-[ the EAP + it gives me an option to edit the profile but there is no geometry inside the edit group...

 

On the left is the arrangement I'm trying to achieve + on the right is what I'm getting in the EAP:

 

 

Does it make any difference which order you arrange the symbols in the OIP?

 

Also, is there a way to texture the 3D geometry differently? I have the 2D symbols in different classes but those classes aren't transferred to the 3D geometry: the resultant EAP is a single object rather than three separate objects in a Group.

 

Thanks for experimenting with this + sharing it with us!

 

[michaelk]

@Tom W. It's working for me with simple shapes.  I'm able to offset them from the origin.

 

Can you send me a file with the shapes you are using?

 

Editing the profile or path part of the Plug-In object seems like it should work.  It's right there in the name!!!

 

Use the Reshape Tool for the path.  Only the symbol can work for the profile.

 

It makes no difference which order you enter the symbols.  You can even leave the first two blank.

 

Texture may be possible by class…

[Tom W.]

3 hours ago, michaelk said:

@Tom W. It's working for me with simple shapes.  I'm able to offset them from the origin.

 

Can you send me a file with the shapes you are using?

 

Hi Michael see attached. In the EAP the profiles are aligned correctly on the X axis but are compressed on the Y axis. I tried increasing the Y offset in the symbols to see if I could get the profiles to line up correctly but it had no effect. But it's possible I'm missing something really obvious

 

3 hours ago, michaelk said:

Texture may be possible by class…

 

Both the symbols themselves + the geometry inside them are classed but the resultant EAP ignores the classes + the class attributes...

 

MK Extrude Test-2.vwx

[michaelk]

I see what's going on.  This tool isn't smart enough (yet) to analyze the contents of the profile symbols.  It just takes the first object in the symbol.  

 

To use the tool in its present, primitive form just have one object per symbol.

 

When I said it may be possible to texture by class I meant it was possible to write the tool to do it.

 

And now it does!

 

The tool uses up to 10 symbols and has a class option for each symbol.

 

Some day I might make this prettier and more efficient.  

EAP Beta 2.vso MK Extrude Test-3.vwx