I keep creating door styles where the class is greyed out in the OIP... a little help?

[hollister design Studio]

I'm not sure what I'm doing, many of my custom door styles have the Class setting in the OIP locked.

I can't find anything in the door style menu to unlock the class setting.

 

Screen grab of an example door:

 

 

If I convert to unstyled the class is then selectable again - but I would really like to just edit these styles so they work.

 

Anyone know what setting I have wrong?

[Tom W.]

Right-click on the door style in the resource manager + open the Plug-in Object Style Options. If the class is By Style, this is where you need to come to change it. Or set it to By Instance so that it can be edited in the OIP. There has been discussion elsewhere about making access to the Plug-in Object Style Options a bit easier...

[hollister design Studio]

Thanks @Tom W. - I would have NEVER looked there.

 

I can certainly see why there would be such a discussion - why would something so basic and important not be included in the door style edit menu?

A menu that has a whole tab for centerline markers!

 

 

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

door style in the resource manager + open the Plug-in Object Style Options.

 

OMG

 

Indeed, the overall Class Setting was hidden there ....

 

 

But doesn't the whole "Plug-in Object Style Options" dialog content,

belongs just into the Style Settings (and/or OIP) !?

 

Why was this additional separating dialog invented at all ?

(a ChatGPD proposal ?)

 

Basically I would wish that we only have two - one Style and one overwriting by Object.

And both in OIP !

By just a switch to change between both global and local System.

Edited February 14, 2023 by zoomer

[E|FA]

The interface is pretty confusing.  It's a little understandable given the complexity and flexibility of the program, but I'm certain it could be greatly improved.  There is a similar issue with wall closures at doors & windows, where multiple settings in multiple locations need to be set to control the behavior, rather than a single master control window.  I'm sure there are other examples.

[Tom W.]

46 minutes ago, zoomer said:

But doesn't the whole "Plug-in Object Style Options" dialog content,

belongs just into the Style Settings (and/or OIP) !?

 

a question for @Matt Panzer... I believe there is a logic behind these settings being separate, I'm just not clever enough to say what it is!

[zoomer]

26 minutes ago, E|FA said:

 There is a similar issue with wall closures at doors & windows

 

Yes, that is when I started wondering.

(Haven't seen, searched or felt a need for that new dialog window before)

But now I realize it is not only influencing Wall Closures.

 

For a moment I really  thought I completely lost control over assigning an

insertion Class for my PIOs.

[Tom W.]

I think it has only been since VW2021 that you can assign insertion classes for Doors + Windows. Before that I'm not sure what the Plug-in Object Style Options did or whether they were even there at all...? Since VW2022 they have also contained the Wall Insertion settings. So they have gained in significance over time + now need to be accessed more frequently than previously so where it was ok in the past for them to be somewhat hidden away, now it would be better if there was more than one way of accessing them.

[zoomer]

4 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

I think it has only been since VW2021 that you can assign insertion classes for Doors + Windows.

 

I did not notice at that time or did not miss anything - maybe I just did it manually ?

But I am sure that since a few years I already have "Container" Classes for my PIOs

or all my BIM Members.

For me that was always essential for Visibility control between Containers and

Components/Materials.

 

Now as you said, I checked my PIO Styles and saw that 50% were already set in

"Plug-in Object Style Options" and I immediately corrected the rest 50% now.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, zoomer said:

I did not notice at that time or did not miss anything - maybe I just did it manually ?

 

I started learning VW properly in VW2020 + it was definitely the case then that doors/windows could not be automatically assigned to a container class on insertion unless you had auto-classing enabled, in which case they'd go into 'Door-Main' + 'Window-Main' but then you'd have opened a can of worms + all sorts of other horrible auto-classing would be happening as well. Instead you had to assign them to the desired classes manually after the fact or make that class active when you inserted. Luckily I didn't have to wait long until VW introduced the ability to assign a class by style in the Plug-in options! Who says VW doesn't improve year on year?

[zoomer]

14 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

in which case they'd go into 'Door-Main' + 'Window-Main' but then you'd have opened a can of worms + all sorts of other horrible auto-classing would be happening as well.

 

I think we should make more use of the "Data Manager" ?

I see that the German users use it a lot.

I looked at it a few times but did not really got how it is working.

(and I think it should be configured suitable out of the Box)

 

I could better live with a simple XML that shows VW's proposals at the

left and offers, if wanted,  a user custom defined solution on the right

to overwrite.

[Matt Panzer]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

a question for @Matt Panzer... I believe there is a logic behind these settings being separate, I'm just not clever enough to say what it is!

 

There is a distinct different between Plug-in Object Options and otherPlug-in Object parameters.  What you see in the Plug-in Object Style settings dialog are parameters defined by the Plug-in object and what you see in the Plug-in Object Options dialog are more general settings available to all Plug-in Objects.  That said, we do understand the need to make these settings easier to find (e.g.: possibly from a button in the Plug-in Object Settings dialog).

[Tom W.]

20 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

There is a distinct different between Plug-in Object Options and otherPlug-in Object parameters.  What you see in the Plug-in Object Style settings dialog are parameters defined by the Plug-in object and what you see in the Plug-in Object Options dialog are more general settings available to all Plug-in Objects.  That said, we do understand the need to make these settings easier to find (e.g.: possibly from a button in the Plug-in Object Settings dialog).

Are you addressing the difference between the Plug-in Object Style Options for a Door style for example + the Door style settings themselves? That's what we need clarity on: what is the difference, in this case, between the PIO Style settings for the Door + the settings for the Door style itself + why must they be kept separate from each other? Thanks

[Matt Panzer]

16 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

Are you addressing the difference between the Plug-in Object Style Options for a Door style for example + the Door style settings themselves? That's what we need clarity on: what is the difference, in this case, between the PIO Style settings for the Door + the settings for the Door style itself + why must they be kept separate from each other? Thanks

 

Right.  The Plug-in Object Options are options made available (by the application) to all Plug-in Objects.  They potentially could be mixed in with Plug-in Object parameters in the PIO Settings and PIO Style Settings dialogs but they've been kept separate to help clarify that these are not settings created by the PIO.  It also creates a consistent UI for these settings for all PIOs rather than having to hunt down where the PIO developer decided to put them in their own settings dialog.  However, that doesn't mean we couldn't provide a way to access these settings directly from the PIO/Style settings dialogs.

[Tom W.]

26 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

Right.  The Plug-in Object Options are options made available (by the application) to all Plug-in Objects.  They potentially could be mixed in with Plug-in Object parameters in the PIO Settings and PIO Style Settings dialogs but they've been kept separate to help clarify that these are not settings created by the PIO.  It also creates a consistent UI for these settings for all PIOs rather than having to hunt down where the PIO developer decided to put them in their own settings dialog.  However, that doesn't mean we couldn't provide a way to access these settings directly from the PIO/Style settings dialogs.

 

Perfect thank you. That was the definitive explanation we needed!

 

[hollister design Studio]

2 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

...that said, we do understand the need to make these settings easier to find (e.g.: possibly from a button in the Plug-in Object Settings dialog)...

 

Maybe a button on the OIP for any Plug-in Object?

It might be nice to have both the "edit style" button and the 'plugin object style options" button just below the "Style" dropdown on the OIP.

 

...did I just suggest an OIP PIOO button(!?!)

[Matt Panzer]

13 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

 

Maybe a button on the OIP for any Plug-in Object?

It might be nice to have both the "edit style" button and the 'plugin object style options" button just below the "Style" dropdown on the OIP.

 

Yes..  I could see having these buttons in the OIP and/or the PIO settings dialog.  

 

13 hours ago, hollister design Studio said:

...did I just suggest an OIP PIOO button(!?!)

 

Is it a PIO OIP button or an OIP PIO button?  We need to get this straight.  😉 

[Josh S]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:33 PM, Tom W. said:

Right-click on the door style in the resource manager + open the Plug-in Object Style Options. If the class is By Style, this is where you need to come to change it. Or set it to By Instance so that it can be edited in the OIP. There has been discussion elsewhere about making access to the Plug-in Object Style Options a bit easier...

I think I am missing something... When creating a window style, is there an option to change the Class to "by instance" for the plug-in options, or alter existing window styles to be by instance, rather than by class?

 

thanks!

 

[Tom W.]

1 hour ago, Josh S said:

I think I am missing something... When creating a window style, is there an option to change the Class to "by instance" for the plug-in options, or alter existing window styles to be by instance, rather than by class?

 

thanks!

 

 

Yes you need to access the PIO Style Options as per posts above rather the PIO Options as per your screenshot 

[Josh S]

Ah I missed the in "the resource manager" bit!