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Hi Jesse, I understand what you are doing here. But I think these are just misunderstandings or different use of definitions. Of course, if you extract Faces from a 3D Objects, these new faces use the initial 3D location and orientation. (if they are true 2D elements, I do not get why there is not offered any "flatten" command or set to "Layer Plane" ...) And I did not yet tried to let VW create 2D appearances from 3D Symbols so far ..... But I would have expected that I can edit these 2D front/side/top geometries, as I most times need to clean them up or sort them to LODs anyway, as always and just assign Classes, line weights and such ... If not .... not so good. But the essential principal of a VW "Screen Plane" is its difference to other XYZ or CAD Planes/UCS/WCS, .... that it is a dynamic Plane, that actually rotates and reorients to your View Screen surface whenever you rotate your View in 3D. The only reason for screen plane that is useful is like putting text/icon or info labels along your 3D Elements so they are always oriented to the Viewer and legible, whatever you navigate your 3D Viewport. Like a video of a 3D scene with 2D overlays done in a video editing software that always follow their parent 3D Objects .... (And some VW users make use of that in a very creative way) But that is as niche feature/usage which is seldom needed. Most times Screen Plane Objects just annoy in any 3D View. Their real location is not predictable or legible. So I postulate that users, and VW, misuse screen plane in many other ways than its "screen orientation". There is no reason to have 2D parts of Symbols or Hybrids to ever orient to monitor ! They have to orient perpendicular to a Section derived Viewport, which is usually in XY plane on your 2D Sheet Layer. Everything that is 2D only I would describe by XY coordinates first. Because it is has no thickness or 3rd Dimension. If any 2D needs to be seen in a 3D context - it is 3D ! and needs 3 coordinates. And I have not seen in any case so far where that Screen Plane is needed in any way that would not be possible to describe by just a much more adequate XY, XZ or YZ Plane. So just keep one of the 3 Axis zero and it is clear that it is 2D and should be flat. if it is rectilinear in 3D add a Z but keep the "same" for all these objects. I postulate that VW does use "Screen Plane" wrong in 98%. Either they take away that disturbing dynamic screen orientation feature and rename it to something like "our-special-2D-plane-that-makes-sure-that- content-is-2D-onlyand-oriented-properly-to-our-current-pupose-in-or- from-our-tool" or use proper coordinate systems. 2D that auto aligns according to purpose - or just proper 3D in 3D Space. And it looks like VW decided to get rid of this problem by deprecating that wired Screen Plane thing, which I highly welcome. But so far, in reality, there is still no chance to really get rid of Screen Plane. No chance to get Screen Plane out of all Containers like Symbols or Groups. But for all screen misusing workflows outside, I am 100% that there would be reasonable suitable plane definition or workaround that can offer at least the same functionality if not more and more consistent.

Well Screen Plane is deprecated, I can keep my files screen plane screen, but not get rid of screen plane from client imports or underlays ... But it is a good start. And for all that still need screen plane, you can bring it back easily or it is still there for migrated files that had it in use. But basically all trouble is about naming and dual use with the dynamic plane feature. (Hey, Image Props have another "look at Camera" feature, could be replaced by just Screen Plane. Would only need a rotate only about Z lock option)

I learned that you can do a custom selection for screen plane objects and convert them. Unfortunately that will not effect any objects inside Groups or Symbols (In my cases mostly 80+ %) And AFAIR you may select them separate by object type to be able to change to Layer Plane via OIP at a time. And AFAIR the number of found screen plane objects may have gone up again after converting them (?) As long as you only reference such files and bring them in by Design Layer Viewport mode, that should not be an issues. If you bring them in into your master file, it will have legacy 2D enabled now too, until you cleaned up again. AFAIR it was also not possible to convert screen plane objects hidden in Container Objects with any VW scripting. So you would need to explode/ungroup everything to really get rid of screen plane and all legacy 2D stuff.

So far it is not. It is still called Screen Plane. But it is partially hidden from users now in VW templates or migrated files that do not contain Screen Plane Elements. That is what I mean by using Apples (OpenGL now deprecated ....) term. (OpenGL is still available on Mac ... just no development ... which wasn't that existing there before though ...) BTW I meant screen plane clean .....

I don't think these are much of an issue. I would just care about Unified View enabled with correct Settings. I thing the only nuisance about screen plane objects is when using a 3D Iso or Perspective View and some 2D Objects will jump off ground and stick to your screen ....

Since I started with VW 2014, I never understood for what at all I could need such a "screen plane" feature. I personally I am very happy that screen plane is now hidden. (no problem that users who think they need it, can unhide it again) And in any App before or beside VW I never saw any feature like screen plane and ever had the feeling I would miss something. So I am fine and will call a "screen plane" feature, hidden behind an "enable 2D Legacy" - deprecated (*) (*) In Apple definition, we told you years ago it is outdated and you should avoid to use it. OK, it is still there but will not get any further improvements. And it is official now - it will go one day, this is your last chance to get forward) But my problem was not that screen plane is deprecated. My problem was that certain bugs or misbehaviors of VW made me feel that maybe not ALL rests of screen plane were already found and worked over in all tools, so that in some dark VW corners there may be still traces of screen plane that negatively influence a now screen plane-free workflow in VW 2022. (Like when you edit Extrudes or Slabs in a 3D View and get an abnormal result - while it will work only when you switch to a Top Plan View) It is just my assumption, that these issues are related to the attempt to clean VW Tools from screen plane dependency. But my main question was, are still ALL mentioned issues in this thread still happening in VW 2022, or are there already some been fixed over the years. (In case someone from VW may be interested in fixing any still existing issues)

I would recommend Layer Plane. As long as you work strictly 2D only, you will do this usually in Top Plan View only. (Like we did on paper in the past. Like aligning your Sections and Elevations around the Top Plan so that you can snap to it) And in case of a Top View (=XY) ... there isn't any difference behavior between Top Plane vs Screen Plane. The special behavior of Screen Plane objects only happens in any 3D View. Like Isometrics, Side Views, .... In this case Screen Objects will be fixed parallel to your monitor screen, meaning they will always look at you, no matter you rotate the view. And in my personal opinion, there are very rare use cases where this Screen Space behavior makes sense. (Something like adding Screen Space Text Annotations to 3D objects, so you can still read them from all viewing directions (?)) I am not 100 % sure but I understand the new Screen Plane free workflows this way : When you draw any 2D Object, it will be drawn on Layer Plane. (Where Object Z = Z height of the Layer) As soon as you move it in Z or rotate it around any other Axis than pure Z Axis, it will change to 3D Plane. 2D Objects will also become 3D Plane when you draw 2D Elements while using a rotated UCS or by drawing Auto Plane, on Planes that differ from Layer Plane.

By default, since VW 2023, Unified View is ON and Screen Plane is gone. If you would need it the old way, there is a Tab in File Settings : "2D Legacy" If you enable legacy mode, you get back access to Screen Plane and UV. Then you can again activate the UV Icon in Top Bar to switch ON/OFF if neded. Also if you open Files, that have any UV OFF settings or use screen plane, 2D Legacy will be activated automatically.

All geometry screen plane !? Are you working 2D only and Top Plan mode in YX plane (= Layer Plane) only ? Screen aligned Plane allowed you to draw 2D objects in e.g. a Front or Side View. (But AFAIK there was no control of the depth or 3rd dimension, at least for 3D objects) Now in VW 2022 where screen plane is deprecated (and hidden by default) there are 2 new Plane Icons in the Top Bar. The right one in pink, when activated works like screen plane did in the past for drawing. Although the result is that objects will be defined as using a 3D plane. That is how I understood. Maybe someone knows better.

I checked my (migrated) VW 2022 Templates and 2D Legacy is OFF. But my project File is not. I tried all Forum advices to custom search and reset screen plane to layer plane on my clients 2D underlay file too. But without success. a) some objects will switch back to screen plane after I tried to change anyway. b) most screen plane setups happen in Groups, no chance to open and edit all of these. Looks like VW 2022 automatically cares about SL Viewport Crop#s plane assignments. But my DLVP Reference's crop always switch back after I set them to layer plane. I also checked all Saved Views for Unified View OFF Settings (did not have these though) I think we have to wait for VW 2025 release that we will get a new Purge Option to get rid of any UV OFF or screen plane settings deleted/converted. But at least to know that Screen Plane in VW is officially deprecated, make me feel already better 🙂

I haven't managed that too. AFAIK there are already some threads. Maybe you have still some SLVPs in your Template (But I think they are save although they had screen plane crops before migration) I have to say that my Templates, re-done in VW 2021 (?) are 2D legacy clean. But not my Project File (also done already in VW 2021) Not sure about my referenced DLVP underlays ..... I can't switch their Crop Plane. It looks like I could switch but when I re-enter Crop it is back on screen plane. Also I am not able to even switch any screen plane-ed objects in my referenced source file, delivered by clients. If I do a custom search for (screen)plane, it shows thousands of screen plane objects. but it doesn't select any of these. And it looks like you would have to enter each Group manually to convert objects to layer plane- which is impractical in that case. I am even not sure if VW would accept me switching the plane reliably in this case. And so far I did not try if my Project File would allow me to finally deactivate 2D legacy, if I would delete the 2D legacy effected Reference .... If VW 2022 is advertised as ScreenPlane free + Unified View always ON (And BTW - I want "hide Layers with different Scale" to be OFF too as default of course) I want all my Files 2D Legacy Clean !!!

I activated 2D legacy and Screen Plane and played with it. I still don't get how Screen Plane helps in any way. Indeed, the start point of a screen plane rectangle stays at its initial point. But no idea how this could help me with a helper 2D construction derived from 2D Top Plan View in a Side View .... When I activate the Back View of a Side View, the helper geometry will even appear mirrored !? Sorry, I think I am out at this point. I stay in my 3D space and layer plane for 2.5D. Screen Plane is now hidden for me, which I appreciate, while still accessible for all others, by 2D legacy activation, so I promise - to try - to no more question Screen Plane (Or Unified View OFF or Crop Perspective, or ...)

No chance here .... It finds thousands of screen plane objects but does not select them, so I can't switch them. I tried to switch options in custom search ON/OFF selectively already. No Selection. I deleted all Saved Views "preserve Unified View" in their Settings too. Also VW mocks about VP Annotations being Screen Plane. But I do not find any SP Annotations in my SLVPs. Maybe in DLVPs ? I think it is mainly about the referenced 2D underlay VWX from clients. But even when I open that file and try everything - I don't get 2D legacy away. I could select some individual screen plane objects there by Magic Wand in Plane Mode and switch these. But for me it looks like anything in hierarchic Groups is not accessible for Plane Mode switching - and there are a lot of groups in use ..... And it looks like I can't even reliably switch DLVP Crops to Layer Plane. They will switch back to Screen Plane when I select them again ....

(Beside that I am pretty known for wanting Screen Plane System to die completely) When I use Referenced 2D Source Data by Design Layer Viewports to draw over, that works fine in Top Plan View. But if I need a Crop for my VPs, which is forced to be defined using Screen Plane, and want to use my 2D underlay to model also in 3D, like in an Isometric View, That crop will be oriented different than my geometry in View (by Screen Plane so to say*) and so cut parts of my needed 2D Plan. That makes referenced Geometry pretty useless in 3D (*) the Crop is not oriented by screen plane in reality, it is just rotated in to screen plane's rotation. As it will scale/zoome and move related to my Geometry. Otherwise I could at least zoom in to re-visibilize the occluded parts of my 2D plan underlay.

Fair enough. But I do not accept problem 1. and 2. In this case you just want to draw a Crop or 2D Plane on a Screen Aligned Plane. Usually even only in XZ or YZ plane. This is a one time action and the resulting part can be easily defined on a 3D Plane, maybe with rotational information if needed. 3. is the only (rare) case I can imagine where Screen Plane is really wanted. As it is the only requirement where the the objects will be defined to ALWAYS align with Monitor/Screen Plane, no matter how the rest of geometry is oriented in 3D.

No, the migrated Templates seem to have 2D Legacy OFF. My current VW 2021 to VW 2022 file can't switch 2D legacy off. I have no saved views, I converted some screen plane Objects in Slab Modifiers to Layer Plane. Maybe I did not find all of them. I have a Referenced underlay File displayed with cropped DLVPs. in a 3D View I see the crop being screen plane and so not working as usual. I tried to convert my Crop Rectangles to Layer and OIP shows them by Layer, but when I go into Crop Edit again, they are screen plane aligned again. I can't even draw a new Crop Geometry without being Screen Plane only !? How can I get rid of that Screen Plane for all and ever ?

Wasn't there a little difference between different planes for when you can accidentally drift in the 3rd Dimension, or not ? Top Plane View + Layer Plane was AFAIK locked safely to just draw on that plane only without any Z shift danger. Screen aligned plane, in a Side View, AFAIK, would still allow that a 3rd Dimension drift when snapping with the 2D line tool - without using "T" lock. Like jumping in Y when you work in XZ of a Front View. I think this was not possible in Screen Plane (?) and I hope (or expect) that to happen with the new temporary pink Plane Icon (?) BTW, this is why I asked @Kaare Baekgaard how he is working, drawing or modeling.

Does that mean "working with 2d representation of 3d objects" - without the use of 3D Objects ? (= 2D only, no 2D generated from 3D) No problem with this from my side, VW is one of the best CAD solution to work in 2D and create beautiful 2D plans. (Just me personally and my work prefer 3D (only)) My point is just : 1. that VW does not always allow to "stay" reliably in 2D - beside in only top plan view, to make it as as easy as it could be, to draw 2D. 2. That drawing 2D only, in reality, would not need a "Screen Plane" at all. It is just XY plane Screen Plane is mainly a base for 3D drawing (!) It was invented (as kind of a workaround) to grow VW from 2D to 3D and drawing 3D in 3D coordinates and rotations, in lack of other usual tools, needing to orient the View Window before drawing 2D Objects in 3D Space, to extrude them to finally get a 3D Element oriented in 3D space. Meanwhile, even VW, like many other CADs is mainly 2.5D oriented, like most other CADs still and Architecture mostly in general, now offers reasonably Tools to work in 3D. (Automatic Plane, SHIFT Lock (at least for Walls), T Lock (As long as you find a free space in your drawing to lock an axis), Rotate Tool if you use dumy geometry to align it in space, ....) But If I got all wrong and it is about drawing 2D AND 3D, it may get a bit more extensive .... But I still doubt it needs a "Screen Plane" and would like to offer alternative functionality for specific tasks.

Hmmh, I think I get it. From my (poor) Screen Plane experience in the past, I always assumed that the Screen Plane Objects wood lose its localization in Space when switching the view and would need to be repositioned or alined anyway. But if I get it right, even Screen Plane, the Object stays where it belongs .... So I may have overseen Screen Plane's comfort for @P Retondo when switching View to realign his 2D helper objects.

I think it is hard for me to follow you. (English is not my native language) I remember Richard Diehl and Minicad (although never seen both of them) Why a Screen Plane Object ? It appears in "fake" Top Plan View in (a 3D) on XY or Layer Plane with Z = 0.00 or Layer height. Screen Plane would mean that the 2D Wall representation would face directly to you also when you switch to an e.g. isometric View, which would not make much sense. I do not really get that there is a difference between Diehl's times and now (pre VW 2022) (BTW I think "faked" 2D Top Plan View in VW is great ! vs a standard real horizontal Section which most others only have. At least in majority of cases) ((Why not have the same for "faked" but pretty Sections)) AFAIK Screen Plane was a way, or the only option, to create and position Objects freely in 3D Space (!?) at that time - If I am not completely off. (You can still see by missing or limited Tools for 3D manipulation/orientation vs legacy Tools Commands like 2D/3D Rotation. VW has exceptional 2D creation, manipulation and design/layout capabilities with 2D elements or PIO's 2D appearance in Top Plan View. I thought their appearance is still based on VW's 2D capabilities. Not so for true 3D only elements like e.g. Generic Solids in 2D View appearance. I think the original of Diehl's vision is still alive in VW 2022 (?)

I think because VW can't really separate or prohibit screen plane completely as screen plane is hardcoded in so many hidden Tools and things you would not expect. 3D! DLVP Crops or strange screen plane-like Extrude Planes and such. I also would prefer to never meet any screen or other funny plane beside any XY, XZ or YZ plane at any designated Z, Y or X position.

No problem with 2D only here. For me 2D is everything aligned to XY plane. And usually at the same height. But I look at it from a 3D perspective. I like to look at 2D on a screen from Top Plan View but not necessary. No problem to look or work at 2D drawings from Iso or Perspective. Just like we do on a sheet of paper on our desks. But Screen Plane for me is like editing a video and placing titles or even moving annotations following the 3D content of the Video. So nice to have but no must have. Those who don't need screen plane objects in DL while drawing and working, could achieve the same by adding text and info in annotation space of their perspective Viewports on SLs.

This is a quite old thread but very high rated. So 6 years later, which of all mentioned issues are still in VW 2022 ? Or were there finally some of them fixed or improved over time ? I usually avoid problematic VW workflows at one point. E.g. never use any Mirror Tools, I tediously rotate and move things back in place, do not move/rotate or avoid any Extrudes with multiple 2D content, immediately convert Solid Add/Subtractions after editing back to generic Solids and such things. So I never recognized if those issues were fixed or not. I just think we got some new strange behaviors since screen plane deprecation, where I think screen plane dependencies were not all deleted from deeper container object, PIO or other objects contents.

I don't think we disagree. My poor english is just not enough to be understood at such complex subject. "Screen Plane" is meant to orient elements along your screen/monitor view, independent from the VW world coordinate systems orientation, where the monitor view orientation is dynamic, VW XYZ is fixed. And when ever I see the appearance of, or being forced to have something being "screen plane" oriented, there is NO intention at all that the objects are really oriented to your monitor plane ! They are intended to sit on a 2D plane. Either (mainly) XY plane of VW coordinates or on XY plane of an internal POI coordinate system. Some times the Monitor/view plane is locked to that standard XY plane, like for Sheet Layers. But there is no real reason to NOT be able to look at your Sheet Layer Viewports from right front isometric if you prefer. So it is never intended that your, for example Viewport border rectangle, is really oriented to "screen plane" at that point. It was only at the time you draw that rectangle in a 3D view when you create your viewport. After creation all including elements have to be changed to XY plane, on a Sheet Layer. "Screen plane" is a nice niche feature to have some labels always oriented to the viewer, similar like image props that always look at camera, no matter how you look at your 3D geometry in 3D space. Like @digitalmechanicsannotated 3D models, or spotlight setups with lighting devices if that may be the case. In 99% where I crossed "Screen Plane" orientations in VW it was exactly NOT the case that it is intended to align those objects to screen but a 2D plane. Therefore I think "Screen Plane" is used deeply wrong in VW. And if an element is "screen plane" oriented - it will orient along screen reliably. Which is annoying if you want to bring such an element back into real 2D or 3D space Similar for my conversations and misunderstandings with @Pat Stanford Pat has some deep knowledge of a lot of older or designer edition tools, that I even haven't touched so far as I don't need them, which he says rely on a "screen plane". I never thought about destroying any of these or take away some functionality. Chances are that I would also insist that "screen plane" is used wrong there too and terms should be changed or if not, there maybe could be more consistent ways to run create such objects. And I also vote that VW gets more 3D in the future, where XY plane is not dominant but all YZ or XZ (2D) planes are equal. Of course I want be able to draw and work with 2D elements in an orthogonal side view. And never jump in 3rd dimension with snapping (2.5D snap)

Not sure if I got the Question correct. AFAIK, if you open older Files that already made use of screen plane aligned objects, screen plane will be already available in VW 2022. For new Files created in VW 2022, you need to activate the 2D legacy features manually. In VW's Top Bar, you can reactivate the Unified View Icon, which is hidden by default. But if 2D Legacy OFF, it is only a reduced version UV, which can only switch OFF screen objects. Unfortunately for me, any Files created in a previous VW Version will have that 2D Legacy Stuff ON and you can't switch it OFF as long as there are screen plane or UV things in. I fear that is even valid for my migrated Template Files.