Elite Exhibits

I have noticed that some Symbols (those with lights as part of them) need to be "Edited" - Nothing changes, simply select them in the Res Browser and say Edit. Then Exit right away. The bounding box is now back to a better size. (This is also a Bug with groups inside of Symbols) - Peter

Question on The Mirror Ball Texture - Why does the "Reflection" Shader not handle the reflection? Without the "Transparency" Shader there is no reflection? Illogical, but I am sure there is an explanation - Peter (das ist einnettes "Spiegelkugel" Horst)

Noticed that Textures are discussed in different locations depending on the way the topic is worded. Attached is a file with mostly NON image based textures. I dug through those provided by VW / RW 2011 and for the most part they are image based. There is a huge gap in the Getting Started Guide and the plethora of Shaders and options in the Tile and Noise settings. As these take over for several Shaders lost to VW 2010 it really would be good to have examples. - Peter

Once used an application that had a command called ":Gravity" essentially any item you clicked when "down" to ground level. With VW ... some where back in 2008 ... When I also wanted to use the Send to Surface command ... I requested a working drawing to dissect. Tech Support never gave me enough to go by. Questioning other users, this was part of the email trail: "...I'm not sure but I believe that the "send to surface" command was designed only for use with a Site Model (DTM). If that is the case (Robert can correct me if it's warranted) then I think the command is working as designed." " ... Essentially, the send to surface works only on a dtm. Your questions about how to create the dtm from the polygon tool? You need to use the 3D polygon tool, not the rectangle tool to create your original rectangular shape. If you then convert this to 3D loci, you?ll have a 3d locus at each corner with a Z value of 0. The convert won?t work if you use the rectangle tool as it doesn?t see this as a polygon. Select all your loci, create the site model and you?ll have your flat starting point. However, on a general note? I do find the dtm stuff rather flaky from time to time? I am just about log some bugs?" I really wish that VW would see the use for some tools in other disciplines, and provide real solutions. The people at Tech support are great, but some times it feels like you are told not mix commands / tools into other workspaces. ... with that said I rarely use the Send to Surface command as select and move is less time consuming. I do assume that the command actually works. Also see the attached - Peter

********************** Try for example scanning a lot plan (a plan with the lots and their numbers and streets) and set it to the ground plan, then show your 3D with it ... ********************** We started doing this for Tradeshows - and easy way to show the 3D Exhibit property with out drawing the product. Only we did it years ago as a texture mapped to a 3D poly. I still think the thrust of the Layer Plane / Screen plane issue is the Marketing Speak vs the Reality. It started out as ... "You can work in Top/Plan view as usual, or switch to a 3D view and continue working in the same way, with the same tools and operations!" - Evolved into ... "Top/Plan view is no longer mandatory for many tools; you can now use common 2D and 3D tools to interactively create and edit all planar 2D and 3D objects ... " A work flow with added steps is not a new paradigm. Its a view changing time drain. (Ironically I bumped into a VW Plug in the other day called: Plane Mode - There are two flavors - Objects to ?Screen Plane?.vsm and Objects to ?Layer Plane?.vsm ) Just like the Attribute Mapping tool in 2010 they will work at it, change it and I hope they fix the issues. - Peter

I dug through the drawings that shipped with VW / RW 2011 - when I opened and then closed - each asked ? Do you want to save. I did not find a single native VW 2011 drawing yet (Yet ...) Add to that, most of the textures are image based. (I have collected a few that are not for future dissecting) It is ironic that the architectural Textures (Some of the brick patterns for example) are Image based. (reference: Textures_Exterior Finishes) while a procedural shader named "Bricks" exist. (?) I think that the ... "the constant "trial and error" technique" ... is the norm since Renderworks was started. (Long for the Stratavision approach?) Why should there not be a guide to each of the Shader variations (Not each possible setting, just an example for each Shader. Bricks and Pavement are what I refer to as Singular Shaders. Some trial and error is easy. Tiles and Noise, on the other hand, have dozens of sub shaders. This is especially true with Shaders that do not transfer well. (ie: they do not look anything like their VW 2010 counterpart.) I have lost of struggled to recreate some VW 2010 "Eroded" Shaders in VW 2011 Based on the VW / RW track record, I do not think that anyone knows what the shaders actually do - (I say it again: What was that "Square" Trans Shader in the first RenderWorks?) - Peter If there any any suggestions on finding info from Maxon - Cinema 4D etc / Let me know.

matt m oz - Thanks Again I find it ironic with VW 2011 as viewed in the Layer Plane / Screen Plane Video is essentially 2D Plan views mapped to four planes surrounding a plan view. Is this presentation what the architectural world wants? - Peter

MattG ... Take a look at the attached JPEG - Is this what you are looking for ? one texture across 9 objects - Peter

Great work Mike (Truly Addicted...) Thanks. ( If users can't understand it after all this then in all likelihood they never will. ) Understanding what happens has not been the key, understanding why the default was Layer Plane (With no preference) - Me thinks this be the key to confusion and complaint. What helps the novice is to think of Layer Plane objects as 3D - NOT as 2D - Like Screen Plane object is 2D - Maybe one should think of a Layer Plane objects as a 3D object that can not have the "Z" set to more than Zero. They can be moved, for example with "Move 3D". Like a 3D Polygon only with better color retention. It also appears that in VW 2011 all 2D edit operations do not work on Layer Plane Objects as one expects them to work with Screen Plane objects ala VW 2010. (Move Command is an Example) As for drawing Layer Plane in the Screen Plane / 2D world of a Hybrid Symbol, that's easy. But there in lies the rub. Not understanding the process (and the default set to Layer Plane) "Objects Disappear" - Not as expected with the traditional combination of 3D and 2D - Layer Plane objects and Screen Plane Objects combined with 3D geometry can create some new style Hybrid Symbols. Visibility is based on View (as with Traditional Hybrid Symbols) and also with the Rendering Mode. (Though there still appears to be a Rendering "Bug" in this combination.) One plus we have noted - The ability to Edit a Layer Plane Object rather than the Static condition rectangles take when you convert them to 3D Polygons. A definite plus. - Peter

********************** Noise settings like 'Cell Voronoi' doesn't really compute with me. I prefer settings called 'Leather' or 'Brushed Steel' or 'Plaster' etc. I suspect that the german owners of NNA have intentionally withheld an adequate rendering solution from Vectorworks, so that we are more likely to buy Cinema4D. ********************** Interesting concept ... I always thought that no one really knows what some of those weird shaders do in the first place? (I always remember the "Square" trans shader in the first RenderWorks.) - Peter

Take a look at VectorBits - ********************************** 2 - Who sells the plug in for "remove duplicate objects" that I have heard referred to. ********************************** http://vectorbits.com/VectorBits_2011/vectorbits/Entradas/2008/1/8_Optimize_Drawing.html Peter

Does the file render in another setting like Fast RW ? - Peter

VectorBits plug ins work great ... think some are now available for 2011 http://vectorbits.com/VectorBits_2011/vectorbits/Entradas/2008/1/8_Optimize_Drawing.html Peter

Thom My suggestions ... don't use the decal tool for what you think it is for. Attached is an example of a Decal that is simply a texture on another bit of 3D geometry. Easy to size and adjust. Assumption is: Attribute Mapping tool is still buggy - Peter

Mike M Oz and others ... More on Layer Plane vs Screen Plane Please see the attached File. Paste In Place is functional, as mentioned, in VW 2010 and apparently in VW 2011 Only when a Hybrid Symbol is edited from the Resource Browser. (Example: Symbol-Screen Plane) have a movie to document same. The Layer / Screen Plane has added several steps of complexity to what was a simple workflow with Hybrid Symbols. I don?t have an alternate, yet, that is as easy with VW 2011 as it was in 2010. But, I have boiled some of it down to two tracks. One. Edit (Hybrid) symbols ONLY from the Resource Browser Edit 2D First. Screen Plane objects / Hybrid Symbols appear to behave as expected. Two. Move from the 2D or Screen Plane world to the Layer or ?Extrude Plane? world. And the number of steps will be minimized. (ie: you won?t have to remember if it was drawn as Layer or Screen Plane its ALL Layer plane now. Unfortunately this equates to ... Do not use the ?double click to edit? a Symbol method to edit an Instance on the drawing. There is a Video on You Tube that would lead you to believe that the switch from Screen Plane to Layer plane is simple. Reality is different. Consider that once you make any Screen Plane objects into a 3D Object, such as an extrude, you are NOT able to go back to a Screen Plane. It appears that you can edit the ?2D - Layer Plane? geometry in Top - Top / Plan - even Right Isometric View, all as if it were ?2D - Screen Plane? geometry. So that is a plus for VW 2011. The problem with this is multifaceted. Those accustomed to calling up commands on the key board, for example, now are instructed to keep the OIP open and work in this mode. (added complexity) If, as the ( VW2011_whats_new_bro.pdf) states ... ?You can work in Top/Plan view as usual, or switch to a 3D view and continue working in the same way, with the same tools and operations!? - Then one would think that all the tools would work. Layer or Screen Plane. They don?t. Some assumptions that need confirmation: In a Hybrid Symbol, there appears to be a 50% tint coloration when a Layer Plane ?2D? object is viewed in non rendered views other than Top / Plan. Full coloration denotes a Screen Plane object or when a Layer Plane ?2D? object is in Top / Plan View. Not sure if this is an aberration - unable to find documentation about this feature ( ... Or Bug) Question? What is the difference in the third (or fourth) Plane? Screen - Layer - Extrude #1 - #2 etc - Symbol. Peter

DWorks ... is this with Hybrid Symbols - Peter

Post a sample file ... I have complained of pasting existing symbols into a new drawing and having the Z be incorrect. I have learned that the best way is only in Top / Plan - Peter

In VW 2011 there is what appears to be a new feature when you double click a symbol to edit. Open an existing drawing in VW 2011 to edit. An existing hybrid symbol is in the design. This symbol is created from other hybrid symbols. The original symbol and sub parts were created pre VW 2010 in plan view (X=0 / Y = 90). Several instances of the symbol are placed on the drawing and rotated to different angles. If you double click to edit any one of these symbols, the specific instance remains in its visual location on the screen, while the drawing boundary takes on the rotated angle. This not what traditionally happened in VW 2010. If you want to use certain command or tools you may need to rotate to a traditional Top / Plan view. Easy to do with Top / Plan View (Command -5) When you exit from this mode, it is quite puzzling. The symbol now remains visually in the Top / Plan rotation, while the drawing boundary is rotated. The fix is to select Top / Plan View (Command -5) again. The question is why is the double click to edit a symbol, now rotate the drawing by default and what is the advantage? - Thanks - Peter

Question for Mike M Oz or anyone ... How do you work with Hybrid Symbols? Open an existing Hybrid in VW 2010 - Modify the "Fundamental 2D" component. An extrude for example. Copy that modified 2D element. Exit the extrude. Paste in place. Exit Symbol Edit. (In Top / Plan view you see the 2D and in Top view you see the 3D. Now try this in VW 2011 - Peter

RSA - What kind of objects? - Peter

So far the struggle (for us) is to figure out "what was" in VW 2010 and "what is" in 2011. Many textures (Image Based) import and work. Others do not import correctly. We find that there is a lack of Migration information (Two pages so far that cover Glass and Metal) One would assume that such a big jump would come with some examples (Cinema and Maxon are not a start up?) - It is also puzzling to read comments like "The Translucency shaders in 2010 are handled by Backlit in 2011" - with no associated example. Our work has so far been trial and error (mostly error) - Not what was expected. General comments on the RW 2011 when we open an existing drawing and render with final Renderworks. 1. We find that Textures are relatively good as we use mostly custom image based. 2. There is a "reversed" image shader bug still with some shapes. (SP3) Based on the render mode. 3. Lighting is completely different, and needs extensive rework. Example: Existing 2010 drawing has a spot light set at 30 that creates desirable color and shadow. Same light in 2011 (existing drawing) needs to be reset to 100 for the same result. Going forward a new logic is required (Again, Would have been nice to read about this, not stumble thru it) 4. Some of the procedural textures do not transfer. Example: Solid Polka in VW 2010 becomes Noise in 2011, although there is a Tiles / Circles that works nicely (But Why?) 5. In testing some of the newer names for Shaders we find that there is little or no variation in the rendered texture for vast differences in basic settings. Another puzzle that we assume someone has an understanding of already. (But, if the original RenderWorks textures are any indication, there will be questionable shaders (Remember the Square transparency shader?) that are simply there and never work. (See examples) 6. Time is Increased, not decrease in 2011. Simply rendering Final in VW 2011 (With an existing drawing) takes 2 to 3 times LONGER than it did in VW 2010. - definitely not what was expected. Our assumption is: We need to compare VW 2010 Final RW to a variation that is not final, but a "Custom RW" in 2011. The free reference "Renderworks-2011-Getting-Started-Guide" has some good suggestions, but is more a reference for people new to VW with 2011. (ie: not those with existing designs / symbols / textures / strategies looking for specific answers) - Peter

Stumbled into this - we are in the same boat ie: RW 2011 takes 2 to 3 times longer to render - with very little info from VW as to RW 2011 vs RW 2010 (Any of the free info I have read so far is more of a How to guide for a new user, not a comparison of 2010 vs 2011 ... Maybe this post should be in the RenderWorks Section? - Peter

We design with hundreds of existing Hybrid Symbols - in hundreds of existing details. One Layer Plane / Screen Plane "Issue" that has been noted is editing Hybrid Symbols. Typically the 2D component can be "extracted" from the 3D component of the Hybrid Symbol. Hybrid Symbols have been a key to efficiency with what we do. In the past, an edit was to the fundamental (Screen) 2D component of an extrude in a hybrid symbol (for example). This (Screen) 2D component could then be copied and "Pasted in Place" onto the 3D component of a Hybrid Symbol without the need to change view or mode. Now the program assumes that you want it to be "Layer Plane" (Listed as 3D Plane in the OIP) in the active orientation. So ... the "Paste in place function" does not work as in past versions, especially with hybrid symbols that are rotated or mirrored on the drawing. (Edit with the double click to edit method of editing a symbol in the drawing) The work around is to paste the 2D component - open the OIP - change from 3D Layer to Screen Layer, use the cursor to move this Screen object to the desired location and exit the symbol. If you do not make this change, this expected 2D portion of the Hybrid "disappears" and there is an additional (Layer) 2D component in a 3D view. It should also be noted, that pasting this above mentions "extracted" 2D "Layer Plane" component may result in an object location that is not visible on the screen. Zoom out, or select all - fit to objects - is required to find the location. (Do not have a handle on why this happens) and Preference settings do not appear to alter this behavior. The complaint on our end is not the addition of the Layer Plane, but the additional view changes / component changes / additional steps we need to do with VW 2011, by default, to complete the same work, based on the default application settings. - There should definitely be a Preference for this mode - Peter

The following is what can be seen in black and white. Please reference: VW2011_whats_new_bro.pdf It is the very first thing on the first full page (Page 4) Notice especially the second sentence. ********************************************** Make 3D as Easy as 2D Vectorworks software is now, more than ever, a true 3D modeling environment. 2D planar objects can be created and edited within a planar context, where they display with all their attributes. You can work in Top/Plan view as usual, or switch to a 3D view and continue working in the same way, with the same tools and operations! Improved 3D Environment The 3D environment is much more intuitive in the Vectorworks 2011 software. Working in 3D is similar to the ease of 2D, for a truly unified and simplified experience. You can: ? Draft any shape, on any plane, in any view, using the tools you already know how to use ? Edit planar objects from any view using familiar 2D operations ? Dimension objects in any plane ? Display graphic attributes of planar objects in any view Working in 3D has never been easier. ********************************************** Unfortunately this is not the case - if the application matched the marketing speak this would be such a major NNA faux pas. I do not have a concern with the new Layer Plane / Screen plane paradigm. As it stands the unpredictability and inconsistencies does not allow one to " ... continue working in the same way," and THAT is the concern - Peter

Does the Auto-Align Planar Mapping actually work - I for one have never seen it as a selectable option - Peter