Tom W. Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Oh dear I'm sorry I didn't think about the symbol clipping a square hole in the roof rather than a circular one. That's a shame! The roof light feature really is in dire need of improvement. See: Quote Link to comment
C.T Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) That's ok! Guess I'll have to use a single hole in the roof face combined with a dormer object for now. Cheers. Edited March 2, 2021 by C.T Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 be interested to see how you deal with it if you're happy sharing it thanks. Quote Link to comment
C.T Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Sure, it's quite straight forward ones you have a Dome Dormer Object lined up with the Roof Face. You need to draw a cylinder on the Face of the Roof where the Dome Object meets/ intersects. (I used 'Set Working Plane' from '3D Modeling' Tool Set together with 'Look at Working Plane' from the top toolbar so they line up perfectly since I have the Roof Face angled). Make sure the cylinder and Roof Face are in the same Working Plane. Select them both> right click and choose Clip surface. The Result: Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I think they deliberately make rooflights enough of a complete shambles to trick us into thinking that the normal window-in-wall tool actually is not too bad. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Thanks @C.T I'm confused now! Did you use the 'Clip Surface' command or 'Subtract Solids'? When you say you drew a cylinder + were in a 3D view that suggests you used Subtract Solids because you can only use Clip Surface in Top/Plan with a 2D shape. Of course you can subtract a 3D shape from a Roof or a Roof Face but then they become Solid Subtractions + are no longer Roofs. Is your Roof Face still a Roof Face? Thanks! Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I have managed to get custom built rooflights to insert into roof faces ok, and it's good enough for small scale drawings. However, I find that once you get into more detail, you reach the limits of the roof face tool and start to need to do things like splitting it into an internal ceiling object and an outer buildup object. And then you have to work out how to get the rooflight symbol to cut through both of those, in the right place. And then it becomes apparent it's probably easier just to model most of it directly as solid objects and cut the holes manually. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 @line-weight I agree. I think if your roof light is rectilinear you're fine, as the symbol will clip a rectilinear hole in the roof the size of the symbol. But in the case of a circular roof light it still cuts a rectilinear hole for it which even by VW standards is hard to work around. Then manually cutting your own circular hole in a pitched roof is actually quite difficult if you want it to remain a roof. Unless I'm missing something really obvious. Because you can only use clip surface in top/plan so you need to draw an oval in order for it to translate into a circle on the face of the roof. Or subtract a cylinder, then you end up with a solid subtraction. Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 yes. Like so many other VW things, 90% of the way to being really useful, but the missing 10% means that half the time it's no use at all. Quote Link to comment
Kevin K Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 @C.T I did offer up some thoughts on this, but It somehow ended up on another thread ? https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/76043-please-help-me-skylight-object/&do=findComment&comment=383876 Also.... i might suggest raising up the skylight a bit to have a bit of a curb and some flashing....the way you have modeled it, which looks great by the way....will leak like a sieve. 🙂 Quote Link to comment
C.T Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Yeah I wasn't that accurate, more focused on the method.. 😅 Quote Link to comment
C.T Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Tom W. said: Thanks @C.T I'm confused now! Did you use the 'Clip Surface' command or 'Subtract Solids'? When you say you drew a cylinder + were in a 3D view that suggests you used Subtract Solids because you can only use Clip Surface in Top/Plan with a 2D shape. Of course you can subtract a 3D shape from a Roof or a Roof Face but then they become Solid Subtractions + are no longer Roofs. Is your Roof Face still a Roof Face? Thanks! Sorry for the confusion (I meant Oval instead of Cylinder) & Yes that's the thing I am not so happy with... I did Clip a 2D Oval Shape from the Roof Face so it stays a Roof Face indeed... But: @Kevin K A Leak or Gap is formed anyhow by punching an Oval through the angled Roof Face. Because the oval punches straight down and not perpendicular is the relationship to the Roof Face. And then as @Tom W. rightfully says Subtracting a Cylinder through a Roof Face will change the Roof Face into a Solid Subtraction. Edited March 3, 2021 by C.T Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 There is a setting within the roof face OIP that allows you to specify whether "hole cuts" are square/vertical/splayed. But if I remember right, maybe this doesn't work properly? I think I recall having this problem too. 1 Quote Link to comment
C.T Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) Many Thanks @line-weight, that it! I set the Hole Cut > 'Square' in 'Object Info' palette of the Roof Face and it worked. Edited March 3, 2021 by C.T 1 Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, C.T said: Many Thanks @line-weight, that it! I set the Hole angle in 'Object Info' palette of the Roof Face and it worked. Good! I just checked, and I think what I remember as a problem is that if you set the rooflight to automatically cut its own hole, this setting fails to have any effect. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 The 'Hole Cut' setting in the O.I.P. is for holes you've clipped in the roof. To change the hole cut for the roof light (i.e. a 3D symbol inserted in the roof) you need to edit the roof element: Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tom W. said: The 'Hole Cut' setting in the O.I.P. is for holes you've clipped in the roof. To change the hole cut for the roof light (i.e. a 3D symbol inserted in the roof) you need to edit the roof element: Went to check that on an existing drawing... VW helpfully gives me this if I try and change anything about the rooflight. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 Hmm how big does the building line offset need to be before it allows you to do it? What is the current hole cut + what were you looking to change it to? How close is the edge of the roof light to the building line? Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I can seem to move my roof light right into the wall + apply any hole shape + not get that message so not sure why you get it... Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) I'm not sure either. The roof face is not associated with any wall, so the "building line" seems to be the roof eaves. It's sitting there 620mm from that line, so I must have got it there somehow (haven't worked on this drawing for a few months). It just complains if I try and change it. 250mm seems to be accepted, 300mm not. No idea why. Having changed the offset to one that it'll accept though, it does let me change the hole edges to "square" rather than "vertical". I don't really trust roof face objects tbh. Always seem to have problems. Edited March 3, 2021 by line-weight Quote Link to comment
line-weight Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 More rooflight problems. I have my own custom modelled rooflight symbol and it's inserted into a roof face. Same one as described above in fact. I'm finding that I'm unable to snap to any of the symbol geometry ; that is, the rooflight in its inserted position. I can't get the working plane to find any of its faces and I can't seem to snap to any part of it in any form. Dunno if others can replicate this problem or whether it's specific to this file/instance. I'm going to have to convert it all into 'dumb' objects I think. The roof face will be a generic solid and the rooflight a symbol manually moved/rotated to position in a manually cut hole. Otherwise it's impossible to work with it in any useful way. Quote Link to comment
Shortnort Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 This may have been discussed on this thread, or elasewhere, but I have not seen it... I do mostly commercial with low slope roof (flat roof). I can not get the VW skylights to insert into the roof. I use roof slabs so that I can create crickets, etc. for parapet walls, etc. Is there a link available to demostrate how to make the skylight insert into the slab? Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 A Slab + a Roof are different objects + you can't insert a 3D symbol in a Slab automatically like you do with a Roof. You would have to create a 3D symbol with a wall hole component to clip the size/shape hole you want then use the 'Add 3D Object to Slab' command to insert it. But the symbol geometry won't rotate automatically to the pitch of the roof (Slab) in the same way that a 3D symbol will in a Roof so you'll have to create a dedicated symbol at the desired angle. Unless you can rotate it in 3D? I've only ever inserted symbols in flat (horizontal) Slabs. The advantage you have here is that the wall hole component gives a level of control you don't have when inserting a 3D symbol into a Roof (where the hole that's clipped is always rectangular + sized based on the extents of the symbol geometry, which most of the time - in my experience - isn't the size of hole you necessarily want). Quote Link to comment
Shortnort Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 This may have been discussed on this thread, or elasewhere, but I have not seen it... I do mostly commercial with low slope roof (flat roof). I can not get the VW skylights to insert into the roof. I use roof slabs so that I can create crickets, etc. for parapet walls, etc. Is there a link available to demostrate how to make the skylight insert into the slab? Thank you. I am very confused. The Wasco Skylight Symbols have Roof and Slab choices. They attach to the roof slab, but do not provide a "hole". There is a command to change the 3dhole, but I can't figure out how do that. I just downloaded the new 2023 VW hoping that would have addressed this, but it doesn't, or at least I don't see how. Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Shortnort said: Thank you. I am very confused. The Wasco Skylight Symbols have Roof and Slab choices. They attach to the roof slab, but do not provide a "hole". There is a command to change the 3dhole, but I can't figure out how do that See the Read Me note that is in the folder with the symbols: Like I said, you need to select the symbol + the Slab + use 'Add 3D Object to Slab' (right click) to insert the symbol in the Slab + in doing so the 3D Wall Hole component will come into effect + clip a hole in the Slab. The slab symbols also have a Top component i.e. they are hybrid symbols: This is the wall hole component (the red 3D shape): Really they should be stored separately to the roof-suffixed symbols as they are completely different objects. The roof-suffixed symbols are 3D only + vertically-aligned + designed to insert directly into a Roof or Roof Face object + rotate automatically to the roof pitch. They have no top/plan representation (because it would vary depending on the angle). The slab-suffixed symbols are horizontally-aligned + are hybrid symbols that can be inserted into Slab objects using the 'Add 3D Object to Slab' command. But if your slab has a fall to it you will probably want to edit the symbol + rotate the 3D + wall hole components to the angle of the Slab + edit the Top component accordingly. 3 hours ago, Shortnort said: I just downloaded the new 2023 VW hoping that would have addressed this, but it doesn't, or at least I don't see how. The issue is really to do with Roofs + inserting symbols in them + is something that's been discussed at length here. The 'Add 3D Object to Slab' process is better + basically the same as inserting symbols or PIOs in Walls. In my view what we really need is the ability to do the same with Roofs i.e. have control over the size/shape of the hole that is cut, be able to include a Top/Plan representation + for the positioning of the symbol to be more straightforward (instead of having to measure offsets from left + bottom sides of roof + entering values in a dialog). 1 Quote Link to comment
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