Jump to content
Tanner Shelton

Cinema 4D Advantages?

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I have been working on some rendering in Vectorworks with some volumetric lights with gobos. And the renders seemed to be taking an extra long time. So I downloaded the Cinema 4D trial to see how that would affect it, it went faster to a point, and the volumetrics looked a bit nicer, but not a huge difference. So my question is this, what are all of the benefits to using Cinema 4D to render instead of Renderworks? I know they use the same render engine, but I wanted to see if there were any additional settings that would make a big difference to use Cinema instead?

Share this post


Link to post

I have so many thoughts about this, but I will try to keep it top line:

  • Lighting - the entire lighting system is miles ahead in Cinema.  Just the ability to move and point lights via gimbal alone makes this much faster to light scenes.
  • Object management - the ability to see the hierarchy of your whole scene and manipulate it via a manager as well as per object in the scene makes the workflow much faster.
  • Materials - I think the material system in VW is clunky and hard to use.  Cinemas material system is miles ahead in ease of use and realism.
  • Object handling - I can rotate millions and millions of polys in Cinema without it even blinking, where the same scene in VW is slow to refresh.
  • Add on render engine support.  I haven't used the built in render engines in Cinema in about 5 years.  I use Corona as my main render engine and use Redshift for all of my volumetrics.  Once you go to GPU rendering and get real time feedback on lighting and material creation, you cannot go back.  That said - Corona is CPU based, but still offers a real time preview window to build your scenes with.  Redshift, Octane, Arnold, Unreal - we are rich with render options these days.
  • Render Speed - it just cooks faster all around.
  • Cloner tool - think live, parametric duplicate array
  • Parametric workflow - things like Extrude along path and sweeps are run by splines and generators in Cinema - keeping them as objects you can manipulate and update in real time.
  • Cameras - there is no way to even compare the two.  Cameras in Cinema are so much easier to use and more physically accurate.
  • so many more.......

Yes - it is technically the same render engine, but if you put a Ferrari engine into a Volkswagon, you are still sitting in a VW.  If you just run vanilla Cinema, your workflow has improved, but when you start to add some plug ins and render engines, things go to apples and oranges very quickly.  Look at Poliigon.com for example - with their plugin, you can add any of their materials to a scene with three clicks with all maps in the right place.

 

I use VW as a modeler and to generate sheets and elevations from - but I do all the materials, lighting, camera work and rendering in Cinema.  If you look at my website - everything there is build this way.  Happy to answer more specific questions.

 

e.

Edited by EAlexander

Share this post


Link to post

@EAlexander Those are some very good points! I mostly am doing entertainment design, and my background is Blender and Maya. So I was thinking Cinema might also match the workflow I'm used to a bit better, and integrate that with Vectorworks for creating plans and the 3d then rendering and texturing in Cinema. Your work looks awesome as well, definitely what I would want to shoot for in quality.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks very much!

 

If you already have experience with Blender and Maya, I think you'll find Cinema very easy to pick up.  The workflow with Vectorworks isn't perfect, but it is pretty great.  Let me know how else I can help.

 

e.

Share this post


Link to post

I think my initial post comes across as a bit harsh on VW - I love VW and I use it every day.  I think VW and Cinema together are a great combination.  VW frustrates me and I stay about a year behind development for stability - but all software frustrates me to some degree.  Renderworks has improved a lot and I do open GL and realistic white interior renders of a lot of our work for clients.  I appreciate the work that goes into it.

Share this post


Link to post

Two different programs with two different objectives IMHO.  I think it's great that VW has a rendering portion to it, so we can do greyscale and openGL renderings, and make our drafting look good.  Some users might be happy with the best Renderworks has to offer as well.  Cinema and its cousins/brothers out there in the rendering world are used to make movies, motion graphics, product shots.  It is a heavy hitter in the rendering world and will get you better renders every time compared to VW.  I would even argue that even if you knew nothing about the myriad of options available to you once you send to c4d, just having team render set up in your office or the ability to outsource a batch of renderings to a 3rd party rendering service so you can keep working will speed up your workflow.  

 

Evan's list is a good starting point for how to look for improvements in your renderings once you go to VW-C4D workflow.  

That said, I would not/could not draft a show and present draftings to a shop for building by just using C4D.  So the reverse is also true.  Technically you could draft plates in C4D, there are plug ins for dimensioning and what not, but it is not meant to do that.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@EAlexander and @grant_PD I'm looking into requesting Cinema 4D after all of your great suggestions. Would rendering time decrease with the default Physical Render engine in C4D? Or are there options I can lower specific things to decrease the rendering time? (I feel like when using renderworks, I can lower settings but it greatly compromises quality, there is no in between)

 

And since I do mainly event design, will spotlight instruments work well with other render engines like VRay or Octane? 

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

 

Render time should decrease with Physical a bit, but mostly your time in setting up lighting and doing test renders will decrease dramatically, so this is where you will mostly see the benefits.

 

Moving to a third party render engine will save you tons of render time right out of the gate.  All the third party render engines for cinema use their own materials, cameras and lighting systems.  A lot of them CAN render native materials and lights, but not as well or efficiently as using that engines native systems. I know Corona and Redshift have automated conversions for materials - these still need some tweaking, but it gets you close to where you want to be automagically.

 

Since I switched to Cinema for my workflow - I don't do any cameras, materials or lighting within VW - but that is just me.  Others might have other workflows.  See what Grant says and also talk to @Wesley Burrows who does a VW to Cinema with Corona workflow similar to mine.  I know Grant is trying out Corona as well.

 

GPU rendering on your 2080ti will blow your current rendertimes out of the water.  Also - most of these engines have free trials - so download some and try them out.

 

e.

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't mind switching over to a different render engine. I am used to a PBR workflow, and I think that does a really good job of selling realism. Would spotlight instruments work in these other render engines do you know? I'll have to try some out probably.

Share this post


Link to post

You'll have to try them out.  Some will work if you just add a Tag from that engine, others would require you to replace the whole light.  Focus on the engine that speaks to you most in overall workflow once you try a few out.  Corona was not what I was looking for, but it spoke to me right out of the gate with ease of use, integration with Cinema and the way that it handles light (the best, in my eyes).  Redshift and Octane have given me great stuff as well.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...