workgroup refs and scale change problems

[Roman]

How do I control where a workgroup ref. gets inserted in a drawing? I inserted a title block and it appears 1000 feet from where I was drawing. Since I can't move it because it insists on being locked, I have to move everything else to fit it. Am I running around the block to get to the front door?

Also, I'm having a problem when I change scale, from 1:240 to 1:96. The objects on the layer all of sudden jump 400' off my page and then I have fetch them, and drag them back to the page. Annoying, to say the least. Can't the objects stay centered on the page space?

10.5.1 on OS 10.3.8

[Delmer]

Sounds like your origin is offset. That seems to happen a lot when working on imported drawings. If the origin on the title block and drawing file are coincident everything should work how you expect it to. -Items will jump off the page because they are scaling in reference to a 0,0 that is itself off the page.

Also, referencing the titleblock and then viewporting it will allow you to move that viewport instead of the drawing. On multiple sheets you can copy and paste in place the viewport from layer to layer.

[Roman]

Yeah, but viewports come in v11, not 10.5. How do you change the reference? Is there any way for VW to ask you where you want the reference placed?

The change of scale issue happens regardless of the drawing. I can start a new document with a 1:96 scale and then change some objects to 1:24 and they just fly off where ever they wish. Why can't they stay in one place?

[JGoss]

From my experience with workgroup references the origin of referenced drawing will match with the origin of your open drawing. I haven't found a way of telling the referenced drawing to center on a particular spot that is not the origin.

Hope that helps...

[Delmer]

If all drwings are set with 0,0 in the center or bottom left or wherever the references all stack where they should. If you do need to move one you can select it and at the bottom of the edit menu select unlock.

When you say "Change some objects to 1:24 . . . " are you scaling the objects (should probably be called something different to reduce confusion) or adjusting the layer scale?

[Roman]

Why doesn't VectorWorks tech support reply with a decent answer? Is this question not important enough? I'm talking about layer scaling. When changing an object from a 1:192 layer to a 1:8 layer (, it virtually disappears because I can't see the change. Try it yourself. I think what's happening is that the objects are adjusted according to the wierd 0,0 - wherever the hell that is. The point is, the object should move between layers WITHOUT changing their position on the workspace (non-absolute positioning). Either assume a center point within the object or a corner, so that you always see at least a part of it. I always have zoom out and find it or zoom in and find it. Ridiculous.

I understand the Lock/Unlock ability with a Ref, but it is pointless because the moment the Ref is updated it assumes its original position. Anyone here used InDesign? When you use a Place&Link, it asks where you want the object inserted. It even lets you modify it somewhat while retaining its link to the original file. When the linked file gets updated, so does the placed link. So, my question remains unanswered (Nemetschek Tech Support? ). Can you tell the Ref where to be inserted? And can layer changing not be so painful? Or maybe Nemetschek requires $800 dropped for the upgrade?

[Delmer]

Allrighty then,

only additional info I have is that you can set your origin wherever you like, check in the Page menu.

[Eoin R]

Roman

Your problem with workgroup references has cropped up a number of times on the user forum. I really think that in the next issue of VW that NNA should sort out the following:

1. Allow the ability to move a reference file from its original insertion point within a file and to stay in the 'new' position regardless if the original file that is referenced in is changed.

2. Allow reference files to be rotated and stay rotated.

Masking and clipping of reference files would also be a useful feature but not as fundamentally important in my opinion as the two items above.

[Travis]

Roman,

I generally leave the referenced layer completely alone (don't even bother turning it on in any of the Saved Views) and just Layer Link to it from the layer I want it appear on. It might be helpful to remember the WGR'd layer belongs to a separate file and must be "controlled" by that file's origin setting, etc.

Since the link belongs to the file you're working in, it will stay rotated and positioned wherever you put it. The referenced layer can update as needed, with the updates showing but not messing with the rotation or location, or scale for that matter.

I do, however, agree that John's suggestions would make it a little cleaner. Basically melding the two functions: wgr with layer linking.

Good luck,

[Jonathan Pickup]

i use and recommend the method that Travis is suggesting.

Work Group reference first, then layer link this to a layer where you will use it.

[islandmon]

This issue is similar to the 'Name' data field owner problem. Let's say you desire to import / reference to a file. There can only be a single instance of a 'name'. All others must be different.

The origin / source must remain pristine whereas the import>into file shall be changed to suit the conditions. In this regard ' standards, & common protocols work best. When scaling is an issue, I will copy & paste & rescale.

Travis offers an excellent compromise.