Drawing registers

[nikihoops]

Hi all,

 

 I'm trying to create a 'clever' drawing register. I've created a worksheet data object and its on a sheet; looks great etc. However when I change the name of a sheet for example it doesn't update on the worksheet - I have tried recalculating it. This is also the same with adding revisions. I have my own sheets set up with title blocks that all seem to work fine. 

 

I've looked online for videos/explanations with no luck.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction/give me some pointers? 

Example.vwx

[line-weight]

4 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

1) This is possible if you create multiple pages/worksheets. However, then you cannot add extra columns and have to use the TB Manager every time to update the data for you.

 

Ok, but if I tell it to start at row X with a count of 10 rows (because that's where my 10 TTBs are, that I want to include) and then later add 5 more TBBs to the project, I have to somehow go all the way back to the beginning and re-create the worksheet with a new row count, is that right?

 

And when I do that (change the number of TBBs I want to include) it seems I get a load of unpredictable results and bugs, so I think I will avoid attempting this.

 

 

4 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

The other way to go for this is to change the criteria of the database report and make it show only the active TBBs or use some custom field as mentioned in this thread. The TBManager will not overwrite the criteria so it will remain the one that you set even after an update:

 

Ok, so this way, I think I can get something like what I want. However, am I right in thinking that I can't then save this customised worksheet as a resource, and use it in other projects? In other words, I have to do all the customisation again, in any new file (or if I accidentally delete the worksheet and have to create it anew)?

 

 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

1 minute ago, line-weight said:

Ok, but if I tell it to start at row X with a count of 10 rows (because that's where my 10 TTBs are, that I want to include) and then later add 5 more TBBs to the project, I have to somehow go all the way back to the beginning and re-create the worksheet with a new row count, is that right?

 

And when I do that (change the number of TBBs I want to include) it seems I get a load of unpredictable results and bugs, so I think I will avoid attempting this.

- If you do not change the rows then a second page/worksheet will be created. You can pre reserve more rows if you expect to have more TBBs in the report.

 

2 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Ok, so this way, I think I can get something like what I want. However, am I right in thinking that I can't then save this customised worksheet as a resource, and use it in other projects? In other words, I have to do all the customisation again, in any new file (or if I accidentally delete the worksheet and have to create it anew)?

- You can edit the default worksheet and save it in the user folder. Then every time you create it in a new file that will import it will take the one from the user folder. Workgroup folders are supported too. The worksheet is located at Libraries/Defaults/Reports_Schedules/Title Block Reports.vwx. You can copy this file in your user folder and customize your default worksheets there.

[line-weight]

41 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

 

 

- You can edit the default worksheet and save it in the user folder. Then every time you create it in a new file that will import it will take the one from the user folder. Workgroup folders are supported too. The worksheet is located at Libraries/Defaults/Reports_Schedules/Title Block Reports.vwx. You can copy this file in your user folder and customize your default worksheets there.

 

I see (eventually). Thank you.

 

This whole process is quite convoluted though, and I think it needs to be explained better on the relevant help page:

 

https://app-help.vectorworks.net/2023/eng/VW2023_Guide/Setup/Project_revision_and_issue_history_worksheets.htm?rhsearch=User Data and Preferences Folder#h

 

Because to me, based on how VW generally works, what would be intuitive would be to save a customised worksheet as a resource, and then somehow the Title Block Manager would let me choose which resource I want it to use.

 

But how it all works is quite obscure; in fact the TBM goes and looks in a special file, which is in the application library defaults, unless there's also a copy of this file in the user defaults in which case it looks in there instead (??) and then it kind of uses that to make a one off instance of a premade worksheet in the drawing being worked on. And that no longer has any connection to the default one, so if I change the default one, the one in my drawing doesn't, unless I delete it, and then run the TBM, and then type a new different name (???) for it in the right field. I think.

 

So for anyone reading this, who is as confused as I have been, here I think is how you customise one of these worksheets.

- DON'T customise it in situ in the drawing file you're working on, unless you only want to use it in this file

- In your file manager make a copy of "Title Block Reports.vwx" in the Vectorworks library and put it in your user library (path as given above by @Nikolay Zhelyazkov)

- Then open that copy in VW

- Do your customisations

- Save it

- Quit VW

- Re-open VW

- Open the file you're working on, delete the existing worksheet if you've already made one via the TBM

- Run the TBM, tick "create/update project revision history"

- Under "worksheet name" type something different from what you might have typed in here previously (I think)

- Hopefully the new worksheet will now be generated using your customised default one.

 

I think there needs to be a better explanation of this in the help page.

 

 

 

[line-weight]

@Nikolay Zhelyazkov another question...

 

is there some way to make these year cells just show "23" instead of "2023"?

 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

3 minutes ago, line-weight said:

@Nikolay Zhelyazkov another question...

 

is there some way to make these year cells just show "23" instead of "2023"?

 

- That is just the date field in your issue data. Edit that field and the change will be reflected in the report too

 

7 minutes ago, line-weight said:

But how it all works is quite obscure; in fact the TBM goes and looks in a special file, which is in the application library defaults, unless there's also a copy of this file in the user defaults in which case it looks in there instead (??) and then it kind of uses that to make a one off instance of a premade worksheet in the drawing being worked on. And that no longer has any connection to the default one, so if I change the default one, the one in my drawing doesn't, unless I delete it, and then run the TBM, and then type a new different name (???) for it in the right field. I think.

- Well this is kind of a standard workflow for something stored in default content. If the same resource is stored in the user folder then the user folder copy is used as we assume that the user wants what he has done himself. As for why the worksheet is imported from app/user folder only when not found in the active file, well we assume that once you have made changes to your worksheet in the active file you would want them to remain there. If you want to use the default version, just delete the one in the active file.

I agree that we can add more information on this in the help site and will try to provide it.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

[Tom W.]

7 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

18 minutes ago, line-weight said:

But how it all works is quite obscure; in fact the TBM goes and looks in a special file, which is in the application library defaults, unless there's also a copy of this file in the user defaults in which case it looks in there instead (??) and then it kind of uses that to make a one off instance of a premade worksheet in the drawing being worked on. And that no longer has any connection to the default one, so if I change the default one, the one in my drawing doesn't, unless I delete it, and then run the TBM, and then type a new different name (???) for it in the right field. I think.

- Well this is kind of a standard workflow for something stored in default content. If the same resource is stored in the user folder then the user folder copy is used as we assume that the user wants what he has done himself. As for why the worksheet is imported from app/user folder only when not found in the active file, well we assume that once you have made changes to your worksheet in the active file you would want them to remain there. If you want to use the default version, just delete the one in the active file.

 

I just customised the TBM-generated worksheet then saved it in Favorites. Whenever I need a Drawing Issue Register I just import the worksheet into the active file, the same way I would any other worksheet. Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way, rather than generating the report via the TBM command, other than as I think we discussed some time ago @Nikolay Zhelyazkov, you can't report on multiple files at once doing it this way, just the active file?

[line-weight]

9 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

- That is just the date field in your issue data. Edit that field and the change will be reflected in the report too

 

When I make a new issue, it automatically fills in the current date, with the year in 4-digit format. So I would need to edit this manually every time. Was wondering if there was another way, so it was automatic.

[line-weight]

3 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

I just customised the TBM-generated worksheet then saved it in Favorites. Whenever I need a Drawing Issue Register I just import the worksheet into the active file, the same way I would any other worksheet. Is there any disadvantage to doing it this way, rather than generating the report via the TBM command, other than as I think we discussed some time ago @Nikolay Zhelyazkov, you can't report on multiple files at once doing it this way, just the active file?

 

As far as I could see, the disadvantage is that you then run into the issues I described in this post

[line-weight]

15 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said:

 

 

- Well this is kind of a standard workflow for something stored in default content.

Is this workflow explained somewhere in the help pages (I can't find it searching for "default content").

 

If it is, then I would suggest the page about the title block manager should link directly to that explanation.

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

3 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

When I make a new issue, it automatically fills in the current date, with the year in 4-digit format. So I would need to edit this manually every time. Was wondering if there was another way, so it was automatic.

- Currently it is not possible to change this. The date format is taken from the OS short date format. You can change it to have 2 digit year and new issues should use it.

 

 

[Tom W.]

5 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

As far as I could see, the disadvantage is that you then run into the issues I described in this post

 

Oh so when you create the worksheet via the TBM the issues run left to right chronologically + not right to left?? I got the impression this was happening regardless of which way the worksheet was generated...

 

Recalculating is fine - that's the same for all worksheets.

[line-weight]

3 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Oh so when you create the worksheet via the TBM the issues run left to right chronologically + not right to left??

 

Yes, they do.

 

It's when they get unlinked from the TBM it all starts to go wrong, as far as I can see.

Edited April 19, 2023 by line-weight

[Tom W.]

7 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Is this workflow explained somewhere in the help pages (I can't find it searching for "default content").

 

Default Content = things like Custom Door Leaves, Door Hardware, Existing Tree symbols, custom profiles for Structural Member, Slab Drain symbols, etc

[line-weight]

3 hours ago, Tom W. said:

 

Default Content = things like Custom Door Leaves, Door Hardware, Existing Tree symbols, custom profiles for Structural Member, Slab Drain symbols, etc

My point is more; how does a user find this out?

 

Firstly, that this is how the TBM works, secondly, how do you actually find the bit of the vectorworks help pages that explains how default content in general works.

[line-weight]

Another question for @Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

The "Project Revision History" layout is pretty much as I want it.

This includes the "Distribution" section at the bottom where I can add the names of who each issue of the drawings has been sent to:

 

 

But I have to fill this in manually, even though there is a field for "recipients" in the TBM when I add an issue

 

 

What would be useful would to be able to list recipients there, and have them appear automatically, so the table would look like this:

 

 

I don't think there's any way for me to set the worksheet up to make this happen at the moment, but this would be nice to have in a future update.

 

 

 

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

2 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Another question for @Nikolay Zhelyazkov

 

The "Project Revision History" layout is pretty much as I want it.

This includes the "Distribution" section at the bottom where I can add the names of who each issue of the drawings has been sent to:

 

 

But I have to fill this in manually, even though there is a field for "recipients" in the TBM when I add an issue

 

 

What would be useful would to be able to list recipients there, and have them appear automatically, so the table would look like this:

 

 

I don't think there's any way for me to set the worksheet up to make this happen at the moment, but this would be nice to have in a future update.

 

 

 

- Correct, there is no automatic way to achieve this at this time. I will add this to our wishlist database. Thanks for the feedback! 🙂

[Tom W.]

20 minutes ago, line-weight said:

What would be useful would to be able to list recipients there, and have them appear automatically, so the table would look like this:

 

 

I don't think there's any way for me to set the worksheet up to make this happen at the moment, but this would be nice to have in a future update.

 

Is it just the 'Name' + 'Company/Organisation' cells you're filling in manually or the crosses in 'Copies' section as well?

[line-weight]

2 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

 

Is it just the 'Name' + 'Company/Organisation' cells you're filling in manually or the crosses in 'Copies' section as well?

 

All of it manual.

[line-weight]

@Nikolay Zhelyazkov if you want to do some debugging:

 

I can get things to mess up by doing something like the following:

1. Create a "Project Revision History" (single page) using the TBM

2. Make a couple of issues, and let the worksheet update itself

3. Go back to the TBM, change it to a multiple page version, with row count of 10

4. Make another issue

5. In the TBM change it back to a single page version

6. Make another issue

7. In the TBM, once again change it to the multi page version

 

I then get something like this:

 

 

(This is from one of the pages of the multi version, on my sheet layer)

As you can see, the Issue numbers have ended up in the wrong places.

You might be able to replicate using fewer steps than I have.

[Nikolay Zhelyazkov]

43 minutes ago, line-weight said:

@Nikolay Zhelyazkov if you want to do some debugging:

 

I can get things to mess up by doing something like the following:

1. Create a "Project Revision History" (single page) using the TBM

2. Make a couple of issues, and let the worksheet update itself

3. Go back to the TBM, change it to a multiple page version, with row count of 10

4. Make another issue

5. In the TBM change it back to a single page version

6. Make another issue

7. In the TBM, once again change it to the multi page version

 

I then get something like this:

 

 

(This is from one of the pages of the multi version, on my sheet layer)

As you can see, the Issue numbers have ended up in the wrong places.

You might be able to replicate using fewer steps than I have.

- I will add a bug about this, thanks!

[Boh]

Hello guys, I'm just catching up on this string. My 10c worth is that a few years ago I also tried hard to make a custom drawing list database worksheet but ran into a lot of the same issues described above (it looks like these issues haven't been resolved since I tried to do it). I eventually gave up on that as I could see to get what I wanted required too much work. As I only need to provide the register for larger projects during construction I just use the auto generated Project Revision History worksheet. For other projects I simply provide a drawing list on my cover sheet using a simple database worksheet that just lists all sheets issued and their revision numbers.

 

For the auto generated worksheets I made a customised worksheet and saved it in the relevant workgroup folder. For some repeat clients I also made a customised worksheet that I saved in a template file for those clients projects. 

 

After a lot of trial and error and practice I have found that the auto generated worksheets pretty well provide what I need, though I do find the workflow using the TBM to be quite tricky. It's easy to make a mistake and then you have to reopen the TBM and redo things. I doubt many VW users would actually use them.

[line-weight]

Yes I think I have finally made something that does what I want, a tweaked version of one of the auto generated ones, but it was really a lot of work to understand what I had to do to get there, and I only persevered out of bloody-mindedness; it's doubtful whether I'll win back the time in efficiency gains and I've yet to see how it actually works for real on a real project.

 

I'd agree that it's currently not sufficiently user friendly enough for most VW users to attempt it.

 

There are some simple things that could be changed to improve things, for example just the names of the default worksheets, so they match something that most architects are familiar with, like "drawing register" or "drawing issue sheet". No-one in an architectural office (in my experience) ever talks about a "Project Revision History" sheet.

[Tom W.]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:45 AM, line-weight said:

So here is the next problem.

 

If I just use the provided "Title Block Project Revision History" worksheet, the one that the Title Block Manager creates, and then updates each time I do anything in the Title Block Manager, things basically work OK, but I need to customise the worksheet, in order to do things like exclude certain sheets, as discussed above.

 

But as soon as I make a customised worksheet, it gets unlinked from whatever the process is, that the TBM does, that automagically updates the worksheet. To update my customised worksheet, I have to select and "recalculate" it. That's not necessarily a big problem; I can live with doing the update manually.

 

The problem is that it gets frozen at showing a certain number of drawing issues. For example, if at the point in time where I create my custom worksheet, I have done 3 drawing issues, they will be there, with the oldest issue (#1) in column 1 and the newest issue (#3) in column 3. But if I then do another issue (#4), it appears in column 3, with issue #3 in column 2 and issue #2 in column 1, and issue #1 disappears. So...once I get to, say, issue #11 my worksheet looks like this:

 

 

That's not what I want; I want to be able to see all the issues since the beginning.

 

I think I can see why this happens: the record "Title Block Issue Data-1" which appears in various formulas throughout the worksheet (such as below) does not refer to the first issue but the most recent issue.

 

 

And so, the thing that the TBM somehow does when it updates the default worksheet, shunts all the columns along so that the one with the oldest issue data is in the first column, and the furthest-right one has the newest issue data.

 

I can't see how to make this process happen on a custom worksheet, so it seems like my only option is to set up the columns so that issue data-1 is in the leftmost column, then manually set each subsequent column with issue data-2, issue data-3, and so on up to issue data-99 or however many issues I think I'll eventually need.

 

And then live with the fact that the newest/current issue will be in the left-most column.

 

(I think this is the same thing you ran into with the column order @Tom W. that you mentioned above)

 

@line-weight in the worksheet in the screenshot above how is the first issue of a sheet represented i.e. a sheet which has yet to have a revision? Is it possible to have these sheets represented with a '0'? I tried but without success.

[Boh]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

@line-weight in the worksheet in the screenshot above how is the first issue of a sheet represented i.e. a sheet which has yet to have a revision? Is it possible to have these sheets represented with a '0'? I tried but without success.

A while back I tried to do something similar but without success. I think I even got @Nikolay Zhelyazkov to see if it was possible but as I recall it either wasn't or was just way too complicated. I gave up on trying to create a custom worksheet for drawing revisions partly for this reason and I now just use the auto generated one, which though it isn't ideal, is good enough for my purposes. For the auto generated Project Revision history worksheet the only way to make it clear that an unrevised drawing has been issued is to give it a revision number.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Boh

[Tom W.]

Thanks @Boh. I ended up doing it with two columns for each issue: the LH column displays a dot to indicate a sheet has been issued + the RH column displays the revision number if there is one. There is no border between the columns so it kind of works visually (I tried concatting them first but that looked worse). At least I now don't have completely blank rows next to unrevised sheets which was really confusing/counterproductive.

 

In my test file the auto generated TBM worksheets weren't working at all so not sure what was happening there... (I mean they weren't being created at all).