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Nick London

Black marks in renders - Vectorworks 2017

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Hi there,

 

I'm struggling moving over to Vectoworks 2017 rendering. See screen shots attached.

 

I constantly have the issue of black smears and marks appearing in or dominating my final quality renders. They are not visible in any other views or in the drawing. You can see the screenshots attached of the same view in open GL, fast render works and final quality renderworks.

 

I'm on a trial of the software wondering if I should upgrade from 2014 and so far not confident if the cost is worth it.

 

If anyone can shed any light on what this might be that would be really helpful, thank you,

 

Nick

 

Screen Shot 2017-08-16 at 12.54.32.png

Screen Shot 2017-08-16 at 12.54.32 2.png

Screen Shot 2017-08-16 at 12.54.32 3.png

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Hi Nick, 

So you're unable to see anything but the black lines in FQRW? Could you attach the file please so I can take a look at it?

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Nick,

Maybe add a signature detailing the system you're working on. Click on your name at the top right. Its under Account Settings.

 

When I opened your file on my system, it was set to FQRW and it rendered just fine. This likely means its related to how powerful your system is. There was a bit of a lag on my system because of all the geometry. In digging down, I think it might be worth rebuilding part of your coat hanger symbol to reduce the number of points. I think its what's slowing down your scene and may be contributing to your rendering issue.

 

599739418d302_ScreenShot2017-08-18at11_59_55AM.png.83157f70e62b46dc714c55dc9c5e538a.png

 

Also, you may find this thread about FQRW of interest -

Kevin

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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Kevin thanks a lot for that. The coat hanger was actually from an imported DWG,  I didn't even think something so small would be slowing it down! I've amended it to something much simpler now and it renders fine, I'm on a 2015 laptop and I've definitely found 2017 a bit slower than my VW 2014 copy.

 

I don't suppose there's a function that identifies overly complex objects within models? Or areas that are especially slowing down renders..?

 

Anyway, thanks again and the FQRW feed is really helpful too!

Nick

 

 

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Hi.

 

I thought I'd jump into the conversation and offer a hand.

 

I grabbed the file and added a edited a few things. Here is my list:

• I turned off the floating point lights. These were not corresponding to the tracks or glow from the ceiling. To make the scene realistic light must match a light source.

• I did noticed the hangers having too many points but did not bother the speed of my rendering, but what I did do is convert the extrude profile into a nurbe curve, duplicate it and created a loft solid, I ma a big fan of using nurbs now, saved lots of memory processing.

• Each one of the spot light symbols contains a IES custom light, these produce a more realistic halo projected on the walls and floor.

• Since this is an interior rendering and not knowing if the store is inside a mall or faces a street I did not use environmental lights, I left the glow objects and track light fill the place.

• Custom Renderworks did the trick here,  some ambient occlusion, 8 bounces. Also set the indirect light to medium or higher to avoid those spots on walls.

• These images are a quick previews. 72 dpi and small.

• Since I imagine this is just a starting rendering and the card board clothing serve as place holder I recommend going for an artistic look, cartoon is actually a good friend of mine as this stage along with pencil sketch.

• If you do want to go more realistic look, add edges to the objects on scene, hidden line can do the trick or start using a rendering style.

• Keep in mind that is best to create rendering using viewports.

 

This is a fun exercise, post later further results please.

 

 

 

test_renderings.png

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Hi Nick and Luis,

 

Glad my suggestions helped. 

 

On 2017-08-19 at 3:30 AM, Nick London said:

I don't suppose there's a function that identifies overly complex objects within models? Or areas that are especially slowing down renders..?

There's no command I know of to pick out heavy geometry. Most of it is experience. I look for things like Sweeps, Multiple Extrudes and organic shapes that potentially have lots of points. On my machine the clothing was noticeably slowing down the redraw, especially when I switched to the sheet layer. Those viewports almost drew in slow motion.

 

20 minutes ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

• I did noticed the hangers having too many points but did not bother the speed of my rendering, but what I did do is convert the extrude profile into a nurbe curve, duplicate it and created a loft solid, I ma a big fan of using nurbs now, saved lots of memory processing.

Ha I'm sure you have the top of the line machine on your desk Luis, being the rendering guy :D. I'm curious about your use of NURBS. I use them a lot in my work and have always been an advocate of them. In this case you're essentially using them to create a generic solid. Is the geometry created a lot lighter than converting the existing extrude to a generic solid? I'd be interested in learning more about how they save a lot on memory processing.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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48 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I'm curious about your use of NURBS. I use them a lot in my work and have always been an advocate of them. In this case you're essentially using them to create a generic solid. Is the geometry created a lot lighter than converting the existing extrude to a generic solid? I'd be interested in learning more about how they save a lot on memory processing.

 

Kevin

 

I too am curious about the memory processing involved with NURBS versus other types of objects. I tend to not use NURBS much unless it's a shape that can only be created with NURBS, often a result of the Loft tool.

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From what I understand it's less about the type of geometry and more about the number of vertices that make it up. NURBS are normally capable of much more complex shapes with a much lower vertex count than say a 3D Polygon. An overly complex NURBS curve (hundreds of vertices just to define a straight line segment for instance) can be just as slow as a 3D poly with similar vertex count however. 

Once the polys or NURBS have been converted to generic solids though, the vertex points translate to polygonal faces on the generic solid, so it's a very case by case basis sort of thing depending on how complex the object you're creating is.

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3 minutes ago, JimW said:

From what I understand it's less about the type of geometry and more about the number of vertices that make it up. NURBS are normally capable of much more complex shapes with a much lower vertex count than say a 3D Polygon. An overly complex NURBS curve (hundreds of vertices just to define a straight line segment for instance) can be just as slow as a 3D poly with similar vertex count however. 

Once the polys or NURBS have been converted to generic solids though, the vertex points translate to polygonal faces on the generic solid, so it's a very case by case basis sort of thing depending on how complex the object you're creating is.

That was my understanding as well and why I asked the question. In the example above, the original coat hanger part has 85 vertices. If I convert that polyline to a NURBS curve it increases to 90. My rebuilt coat hanger part only has 12 vertices. By my count there are around 136 coat hanger in this file, so that's 11560 source vertices in the original file, 12240 source vertices if directly converting to NURBS curves or 1632 source vertices for my rebuilt geometry. Significant differences.....

 

Kevin

 

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I think the Nurbs will be divided depending on geometry settings in Render Style.

While the Polyline will always keep its 85 vertices.

 

So rounded faces of Nurbs or Solids gives at least some control.

If you set lower quality, you will get less 3D Polygons at the end.

 

And if there are so many instances of the same geometry I would make use of Symbols

which will be treated as render instances that C4D will profit also.

Even VW OpenGL, if I got that right.

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Thanks for the help guys. And Luis, I need to learn your vectorworks tricks! Those views are way better than what I can achieve... I'm only really starting out using render works so hoping to do some tutorials, my modelling and lighting understanding is pretty basic but will look into your descriptions of what you did to my model and see what I can pick up...

Thanks again,

Nick

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