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Hello all,

Just about to head into the tender / construction stage of this project and I was hoping I could get some advice / pros & cons / discussions going on how to manage my drawing files.

So far I have had all my sheets set up in the one model file, it is lovely and simple and though large the file seems to work well. However, now I need to start setting up significantly more sheets ranging from 1:500 scale down to 1:5 details and adding a fair bit more detail to the model.

Previously at this stage we have started splitting up the files and referencing the model in, at least in part so that more than one person can work on the project at once. With the new project sharing this is no longer strictly necessary but would it be worth drawing the 1:5 details at least in a separate file, would you draw them on the annotations layer or on the design layer like the good old days? Would you still recommend splitting it into multiple files and referencing the main model in?

Any advice or opinion is welcome.

Thanks for your time.

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Similar question; I have a project that the building plans are one scale but I need to add details at of course a different scale. I like to keep all in one file for ease of printing /referencing etc.

Is it normal/practical/standard VW practice to just have a different layer for details? And how does one normally handle enlarged portions of plans. I have 1/8" floor plans, but need a few 1/4" views for toilet rooms, and stair plans.

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Various ways to do it but I tend to draw with a few design layers, site works, ground floor etc all drawn at 1:1 and set my viewports at different scales. Set and dimensions for each scale and seperate class for each scale so my 1:100 notes and dimensions only show in the appropriate sheet layer.

I will work over the 1:100 in either a different class for larger detail or design layer to produce my 1:10 details and simply viewport it at 1:10 and turn on only the larger detail work.

This way you are still working with the original sketch work and working it up to final construction work, layer on layer and control what you see in the viewports.

Many ways to get the drawings done but that one way.

HTH

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Alan,

Thanks, this seems likes a clean and logical method but does it work when drawing 2D details in a BIM / 3D modelling process? Or is there a similar system that works for this?

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What you can do is create a viewport, either a sectional one or plan of the area you want to detail and use that as the base and draw over the viewport that is a direct reference to my 3D model." Then viewport this to my final sheet and adjust the final line weights in the viewport.

One thing I tend to do is have almost all my line weights set to 0.05 except a few specific ones that I will never want to change and adjust all my line weights in the viewport. You might wonder why until you look at a hidden line drawing building elevation and wall lines around Windows look strange, sone fat and some thin.

You could do notes in annotations but this way they are all in my design layer in a different class and can flick them on and off and work on 3D or 2d easily.

HTH

Check out this post about line weights, this I'd how I set up things and the reason.

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=42295&Number=210631#Post210631

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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So do you link your section viewport to a design layer to draw over 2D,

or do you draw over a sheet layer ?

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I have used annotations to add notes and highlights directly, and the other way was to add notes and highlights on the design layer with scaled down text.

A few ways to do it to get the same results.

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I do 3D only, for Collision and Renderings.

Sometime I create section viewports for fun.

So I have no clue in 2D and as for the Default way to to this.

If you made generated plans and sections by viewports,

where should I do Dimensions and Annotations by default,

(because of the scales)

on the Sheet Layer ?

I could do Dimensions, Annotations and missing 2D Geometry in my

Design Layer in Plan View before creating a plan viewport.

But that would not work for Sections (?)

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Detail viewports can only be placed on a sheet layer so you have to do the detail work and notes in annotations. Section viewports you can place on either Design layers or Sheet layer but i tend to do the detail work in annotations also.

Its all not that user friendly yet so i am from the old school even though I would love to have the program set up an easy way to do this.

So after the design has been approved the 3D model starts to become sort of redundant except for elevations and i am off drawing in 2D my construction details. Plan i will work over the main plan with different classes and viewport them to a detail sheet.

Had it on a wish list for the program to have a work flow from Design to Construction but looking at the marionette concept the program seems to be concentrating on programming and 3D work and not for architectural construction documentation.

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Thanks Alan.

OK,

so you can draw on both, Design and Sheet Layers.

So you could do a section Viewport assigned to a viewport, draw

some additional things and - create a final Viewport containing all

and placed on a Sheet Layer.

So a Viewport in a Viewport ?

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Wow, great discussion here, lots of useful tips.

I think the method we are going to attempt is to create everything down to 1:20 in a single model file. For everything smaller than that we will create a separate file, reference in the model and try to use a design layer section viewport as a guide over which we can draw our smaller details. These will then be view ported into sheet layers.

Alan, have you tried much of the dlvp method I mentioned above? I'm worried it might be a little slower but it fits more comfortably with our previous 2D workflow for detailing.

Also are you creating all your sheet layers in one file or are you creating multiple files with referenced dlvps? Couldn't quite make it out from your posts.

Thanks everyone.

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With VW 2015 and before we often used separate files so that you can have a few people working on the same project and used XRVP from say a base plan but now with collaboration in VW2016 I think we will stay with one file.(Thinking about residential, not for a stadium etc)Now I would still work with the base plan and use viewports on design layers to build the detail over but only enough to show what the builder needs to see and leave the rest. No use detailing the whole building in 3D or 2D just the important bits.No need for separate files for different scale details, just use differnt classes for each detail level. Even 1 class for the notes and drawing at 1:5 and another for 1:20 etc. Just control the classes in the viewports to see what you need.

DLVP are good but its another step that you probably don't need to do if you use the classes to define the detail work and notes.

We will do a design layer and viewport the base kitchen and wet area plans in then do the detail work over the base then reference that back into the base drawing if needed and off to the detail sheet with all the detailed plans and elevations.

HTH

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As VW saves everything inside the VWX file, including Viewports and Renderings,

I think it is not a bad idea to use a separate file for Sheet Layers.

That way you can keep your BIM Model light.

That would not work with Project Sharing ?

The Referenced File has all 3D+Sheet Geometry though.

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Zoomer,

The only hesitation I have about separate sheet layer files is that you seem to be slightly more limited in you viewport specific class overrides in section viewports taken from referenced DLVPs.

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Forgot that ...

Plus Referencing can be quite tedious and a mess if Layers in the

source File get replaced/renamed.

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HI,

Not sure why you would use separate files for Sheet Layers as Sheets are your final drawings and compose the full set of documents for construction or whatever.

All your design layers are referenced to different sheet layers and each viewport is manipulated by adjusting the classes and design layers to create your sheets. All in one is best as you constantly have to zip in and out of them when finalizing each sheet /Drawing).

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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The only reason would be file size.

As VW stores everything in the VWX file, I thought it may be better

to not have to model 3D in a 1,5 GB file.

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Paul,

I had forgotten about that PDF. That is the method we have used on a couple of projects and it seems to work well, though occasionally annoying having to switch between the files.

It does again have the slight problem of viewport specific class overrides not being available and that section viewports of referenced files don't seem to work as well as section viewports in the model file itself.

The question now is does the new project worksharing mean that we should all be working in one single model file or not?

Is it safer to continue on the referencing method to avoid the worry that VW will grind to a halt under the 1.5 gb file as zoomer mentions?

(btw I'm not disagreeing with any of these methods, just keen to figure out the pros and cons of all the options)

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I can't see us using the Project worksharing feature at the moment.

We all work in the same office (not at home or abroad), we have a good folder structure to organise the reference files. I just don't like the idea of having everything in one drawing.

We moved away from that by referencing in other files, although some people in the office (no names) still do things in one file and I have to transfer the information in the proper format later.

I can see how a project architect might want the final okay before the work undertaken by the 'cad monkeys' is accepted in to live model.

I say this and in a years time i'll probably be converted.

p

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On another note, I can't see why people use class overrides. If you set up your classes exactly how you want them to begin with, there should be no need to override the attributes. Are there other reasons to use them that i'm missing?

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Paulg,

I think that having one drawing only makes everyone a bit nervous!

I don't think we would use project sharing as a control mechanism, more as having the benefit of being able to see all the information whilst you are editing the model.

With class overrides we use them a fair bit, for example when we want to highlight specific wall types, increase or reduce the amount of detail shown by changing fills to a solid grey etc, altering line thicknesses of 3d model elements or textures etc.

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PaulG,

Class overrides give you the opportunity to use one class to do a number of things without additional classes.

Example is drawing your roof in plan, you want the lines to show solid in the roof plan but you can turn that class on in the ground floor plan and change its line type to dotted and you then have the roof dotted over. You also might want the red lines to show in the demolition plan in red to have them stand out but in another you might want them light so in the viewport you change it to light grey and so on.

Its all about using one class to do as many thing as you want otherwise you have to draw things a few times and maybe get one wrong if changes occur.

It really provides you with great flexibility as to how you present your final sheet.

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I certainly might be jumping in midstream here, but has anyone developed a Class name/line weight/line color sheet template which when exported to DWG for ACAD users is reasonably compatible with AIA or other standards (which they are willing to share)?

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I certainly might be jumping in midstream here, but has anyone developed a Class name/line weight/line color sheet template which when exported to DWG for ACAD users is reasonably compatible with AIA or other standards (which they are willing to share)?

Wouldn't it be easier to import the AIA dwg template (assuming there is one available from them) and clean it up for use in Vectorworks? That way you should have a correct file.

One of the bigger problems I see with templates for excahnge with AutoCAD is that when text styles are defined for dwg files Vectorworks does not import/export text styles to DWG (unless this has changed in VW 2016)

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