Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Chris D

VW Architect vs Revit LT

Recommended Posts

Chris,

Just wondering how the transition is going, and is the grass greener?

Have you started modelling up any reasonable sized schemes yet? I have a few genuine questions if you have time to answer.

How do you find the modelling process compared to VW?

How is Revits stability and buggyness in comparison to VW?

Is it quick/easy to get the 2D construction drawing information from the model? (things like room elevations and 3D views as well as sections elevations etc.)

Share this post


Link to post

Alan,

We're still training, while running jobs in VW...

We realised quickly that the learning curve for Revit is very steep and that it's dangerous to launch into a job without being reasonably proficient. We ran into problems straight away too...the UK content is not great...and we don't (yet) have an office library of components. All of this is a big obstacle for actually running a live job in Revit.

Modelling and Navigation are easier than VW. Stability is hard to judge yet, but no crashes to report. We've printed sample 2D drawings from our experiments and yes, they are crisp and very easy to produce.

The transition to single-building modelling would have been far easier inside VW as you can fall back on your old 2D workflow...

It's very hard to make the switch to 3D working, plus new software, plus new OS (Windows) all at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks Chris,

Appreciate the feedback. Yeah that seems a lot of changes at once.

I am just tired of all the hurdles we seem to come up against with a 3D workflow in VW. Guess I need to trial some other software in my own time to compare.

Share this post


Link to post
...the UK content is not great...

Worse than out-of-the-box VWA?

I wouldn't say that bad, because you do get a whole load of detailing components like metal wall studs and things like that, but for instance the out of the box windows don't include a double casement, so if you can't find one on the internet (unlikely) you have to make your own in the Family Editor...which is not something beginners want to get sucked into (the parametrics take some learning). The Window tool in VW where you can arrange your own window lights in a graphical environment is actually far superior.

Share this post


Link to post
...so if you can't find one on the internet (unlikely) you have to make your own in the Family Editor...which is not something beginners want to get sucked into (the parametrics take some learning). The Window tool in VW where you can arrange your own window lights in a graphical environment is actually far superior.

I'm guessing though that's it's easier to learn the Family Editor than Vectorscript and that the Family Editor is more powerful than the Window Tool in VWA?

Share this post


Link to post
I'm guessing though that's it's easier to learn the Family Editor than Vectorscript and that the Family Editor is more powerful than the Window Tool in VWA?

Well yeah, you can easily create your own jamb profiles for instance - it's just a profile and a sweep inside the Family Editor, so if you get the hang of it you could create a set of common components for your office quite quickly, with no scripting. I've never used VS but have looked at scripts people post on here and they are quite baffling to me, so I'd say the FE is easier than that.

Share this post


Link to post

It would be interesting to know what the other users on here who run Revit as well as VW think. Do you guys use the Family Editor to the max - have you got your head around this 'nesting' and the parametrics?

Share this post


Link to post

Christiaan,

This document will give you a good idea of the power, but also the complexity of the Family Editor in Revit:

Parametric-Families-Tutorial---Revit-Arch-2010.pdf

(It's for an old version of Revit but still current afaik)

You can do all of this in Revit LT except in-place families.

If you're sticking with VW then maybe put this on the Wishlist!...

Share this post


Link to post

Chris, I have a question about revit and floor plans. I understand that revit creates it's plans through a section from the model, but I want to know if the symbols used for cabinets etc... will just show up in hidden line or if they can have another presentation in plan view then in all other 3D views like we have a 2D and 3D component in VW?

Another question: Is this kind of plan possible in Revit?

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=8545&filename=Naamloos.png

Edited by DWorks

Share this post


Link to post

I wouldn't say that bad, because you do get a whole load of detailing components like metal wall studs and things like that, but for instance the out of the box windows don't include a double casement, so if you can't find one on the internet (unlikely) you have to make your own in the Family Editor...which is not something beginners want to get sucked into (the parametrics take some learning). The Window tool in VW where you can arrange your own window lights in a graphical environment is actually far superior.

Good point, Chris. Vw's plug-in window has the easiest and fastest way to increase and decrease window lights (i.e., 1,2 or 3 panes horizontally and vertically in each window). Imagine doing this manually in Revit - I'm talking about making individual outlines for every added pane of glass and mullion!

I've found it's really easy to configure a Vw plug-in window, select it, and make it a symbol. Then it's easy to use the same window afterwards. It's even more easy and fast to edit the symbol afterwards, because the plug-in parameters of the window are still inside the symbol. All you have to do is edit the symbol, and get to the plug-in parameters on the Object Info Palette. This eliminates the time it takes to swap out symbols (or Revit families) on the plans.

The Custom Selection command in Vw also deserves high recognition, and has saved me lots of time in making changes to multiple selected doors, windows and every other kind of objects. I know of nothing in Revit that can compare to this.

Edited by Bob-H

Share this post


Link to post

Phewwww... I just spend the whole weekend trying to get my example building into Revit to see how really 'good' the program is.

This is what I could get on my first time use for two days:

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=8559&filename=Revit plan.png

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=8560&filename=Revit section.png

Now for my experiences and personal ideas:

Revit is not able to produce the kind of graphical goodness I can get out of VectorWorks. I personally love color, and being spoiled by VW with all it's colors and fill types, it was hard to be satisfied by the way things look in Revit. Out of the box, Revit is just some black and white splatters, but you can edit stuff to get colored plans like you can see in my result, but it all comes with a price that you can't have a dark color in section and a light color in plan view for the same material. You can override colors for objects, but not for materials, so overriding is for all objects of a same type, even if some are glass and some wood. I know that this is really personal, but for me, this is a big issue.

What I did like about the graphical possibilities is that you have 3 different grades of detail and that this is consistent over the whole package. So you can tell in which states objects need to be showed and have different representations/colors for the different grades of detail. I think this could be a powerful feature for VW. (I know VW has a similar thing, but it's not consistent for everything and the user can't really decide stuff for it.) I also do like the surface patterns you can give materials. This can give elevations a nice 2D touch to them, but Christiaan, they are really not vector-based and not snappable, so it's just for presentation purpose, although you can align them in the drawing. Materials are really good and are in a sense the classes we know in VW. Revit doesn't have classes, only materials and it's for the graphical attributes only. Objects can be viewed on type etc.

The BIM part of Revit is really good, not excellent. There are much small problems comparable to the one VW has. The main idea is actually quite the same like levels etc, they are only implemented in another, mostly more intuitive, more consistent way. Each object is actually at it's root one type of object: a family. So many things are the same for all objects and it makes it easier to understand them. But there it just ends. VW has it's bim problems, but at the end of the day, you only need VW to complete all your task as an architect/engineer. With Revit, you always need a lot of other programs to do all the stuff that Revit can't do. I find this really bad, especially when you know that Revit really is costly. Plus VectorWorks is really far superior for its 2D, 3D modeling and graphical respresentation.

The ribbon in the user interface of Revit is really nice. When selecting an object it shows what you can do with it so all is more clear. It also gives much message boxes to let the user know critical information about things that will happen to the model when doing stuff. I really like this. It connects you more to the program.

Some other thing VW is far far better in is the control over the position of elements and the general correctness. In Revit it seems not possible to draw things from a certain point. You can only draw from other objects. This really irritates me because I'm always really precise in what I do and I want everything to be correct. You can't even place a viewport on a certain location or crop the view to a certain distance from the objects in it. You even can't see any coordinates of objects. Also snapping isn't that good and it makes everything slow to edit. Navigation and selection is also a problem when many objects are in the model. You need to make extra views to be able to select them or to be able to edit them, which I find ridiculous.

There will be stuff I forgot and I may be missing the experience with Revit to know if what I'm saying is really true, so please correct me if this is the case. But my preference still goes to VW. It really has to be a great job they offering for me in order to switch to Revit.

Edited by DWorks

Share this post


Link to post
Phewwww... I just spend the whole weekend trying to get my example building into Revit to see how really 'good' the program is.

Plus VectorWorks is really far superior for its 2D, 3D modeling and graphical respresentation.

Nice work there, Dworks. I like the fair and balanced assessment of Revit, too. It agrees with my impressions that the program stops at some critical points where Vectorworks continues - particularly in 2D graphics and 3D modeling, there are some big differences there in the editing environment. The Siemens parasolid engine in Vw can only get better in its implementation.

I particularly like the graphical styles in Vw, and its "Sketch" linestyle. Whenever I use it for design presentations, it always get compliments.

Share this post


Link to post

Chris you still there? How's Revit going? Could you give us a little update?

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post

VW has it's bim problems, but at the end of the day, you only need VW to complete all your task as an architect/engineer. With Revit, you always need a lot of other programs to do all the stuff that Revit can't do.

(..)

Its the other way around Mate <->

Its VWs BIM AEC Model that is dysfunctional HTH

can you expand on this, please?

rob

Share this post


Link to post

VW has it's bim problems, but at the end of the day, you only need VW to complete all your task as an architect/engineer. With Revit, you always need a lot of other programs to do all the stuff that Revit can't do.

(..)

Its the other way around Mate <->

Its VWs BIM AEC Model that is dysfunctional HTH

can you expand on this, please?

rob

I only use VW for all things I need to do in a projects' lifetime, and for many other things. VW can do so much other stuff than just a bim model, which is the only thing Revit does.

Share this post


Link to post

i've read this thread and watched the links. a few remarks:

1. in the eu over the years there were many interventions by the competition commissioners against presumable monopoly deals and standards forcing. they will surely mandate the open bim. unless adesk buys them all, that is :)

2. adesk was interested in ifc up to the point they bought revit in 2002, then they blocked their participation in the ifc evolution process. the releasing of revit lt without an ifc export is the best proof for this.

3. the technology changes every 3-5 years, the buildings last for 50-100 years.

dr bill east (of buildingsmart alliance) in his 'unified theory of bim' presentation, overview chapter:

buildingsmart alliance education course

part 3 of introduction videos, ca 4:20:

'we need information that is independent of the format of the media and of the software in which it's used. sounds a lot like open bim standards.'

this last point is extremely important for the life cycle management of the buldings, but overlooked by many.

once more, happy easter everyone :)

rob

edit:

one more link:

shoegnome blog

Edited by gester

Share this post


Link to post

The latest Revit version 2014 has these New Features (and these are ALL of them):

Displaced Views

Dockable Windows Framework & Enhancements

Material UI overhaul

Non rectangular crop regions

Room calculation Point

Schedules

Selection enhancements

Split Elevations

Temporary View Templates

View navigation performance

Multi Selection - bring to front & send to back

Stairs & Railings

Double click to edit

Point Clouds

I'm sure that if Vectorworks 2014 were to announce that it has "non-rectangular crop regions", none of us would be drooling over it, as Vw has had that feature ever since cropped viewports were in existence. BTW, Revit crop regions are still restricted to straight perpendicular sides. The Material UI is an un-kludge of a previous painful setup, and the Double Click to Edit should be a given standard, and not an upgrade feature. And it's nice that the Revit 2014 folks can now "bring to front" and "send to back" multiple objects - shouldn't everyone?

I have little doubt that I would ever see a Revit that has decent trees, prop images, terrain editing, NURBS, PDF import, can copy objects between project files, search and replace text, import of DWG linework, movable 3D working planes, backward compatibility to AT LEAST the previous version, worksheets, and some effort to expand from a MS Windows-Only platform. But with so many users who would buy it regardless of its lackluster features, why should every new version of Revit change that much? If computing history tells us anything, it is that Aggressive Market Leadership and Creative Innovation are inversely proportional.

Share this post


Link to post

@bob-h

what exactly do you want to say with your post in a vw architect vs revit lt thread?

rob

Share this post


Link to post

I think it's obvious....

To put it simply, Autodesk is very good at marketing leadership, while they put little effort into improving their products with new features. I've had that problem before with AutoCad.

To put it even more simply, it's all about the shareholders.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd prefer to be in the position of my CAD software needing drafting refinements rather than needing years of development just to catch up with dedicated BIM apps. I'd rather be just getting non-rectangular cropping than still waiting for the ability to create line elevations from our models without having to resort to rendering.

Share this post


Link to post

Every CAD/BIM software product has its strengths and weaknesses. I've been lamenting the "elevation viewport update button" dilemma in Vw just this week. I don't know why those hidden line viewports change to wireframe when they need updating. No major tragedy, but just a small annoyance.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...