Sort of related to Lighting but more to Sound

[grant_PD]

Has anyone run across Speaker symbols that have the same sort of database functionality that lights do? I've some sound design students who were inquiring.

[michaelk]

Mr. Dunning has a plug in that you may be intereted in:

http://www.landrudesign.com/DefaultFrameSet.htm?index.htm~LandruMnFrm

[JBenghiat]

What functions are you/they interested in seeing? If you're just looking for building a database, say for generating equipment lists, you can use VW's built in database functions to attach a record to any symbol. VW can export the database or generate worksheets.

If you're interested in looking at speaker coverage, check out Andy's plug-ins.

-Josh

[grant_PD]

thanks for the info. I have some sound design students (1st year grads) who were wondering if speakers could have the same worksheet/database connectivity as lights. I imagined that they could, but had never seen any. I actually have no idea what paperwork sound designers generate.

I like Andy's plug ins though. He's a crafty dude that Andy!

[C. Andrew Dunning]

Grant -

Thanks for the kind words. I think "crafty dude" is a new one... ;-)

As to your question, Because AudioBox and AudioArray are PIOs, they inherently have records attached to them. with those records, users can track things like:

- Brand and model

- General overall dimensions

- Weight

- Dispersion (horizontal and vertical)

- Throw distance

- Power method (self or remote)

- Support method (flown, stacked, etc.)

- Tilt angle

- Location and purpose

- Rack and drive line

- General notes

Does this answer your (and your students') question?

[JBenghiat]

Also, if they're just looking for a simple but flexible database, in VW's help app, look under Fundamentals>Using Vectorworks Resources>Record Formats. The database is quite useful but easily forgotten admits the more complex, "smart" plug-in solutions available.

If neither Andy's solutions nor the built-in database suit their needs, encourage them to post to the list and someone (probably Andy, Sam, or I :-) ) will likely come up with a solution.

-Josh

[grant_PD]

Thanks guys! Andy, your plug in will be enough to get them started. I'm going to demo it for them and let them have at. I wish I could convince the school to buy it for them, but they are being stingy with their funds these days.

[C. Andrew Dunning]

Grant -

I see that you've purchased a license. Just let me know if you or your students have any questions...

[grant_PD]

I'll demo it to them next week. It really is a wonder that there is SO much lighting available to CAD users via Vectorworks, but so little in the way of sound. But I guess that's a good indicator of what drives the industry.

[Jonathan Pickup]

there is a suite of tools from a company called neatworkz that are designed to offer sound design tools for Vectorworks. I have seen this and for complex sound design this is a very cool solution.

http://www.neatworkz.tv/

[michaelk]

Grant

I've been spending a lot of time w/ audio system designers lately. So I've been able to observe how they do it.

I don't think there is any way to get VW to calculate the SPL for any given seat in the house.

Most acousticians / sound designers I work with use something similar to EASE http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/17017.aspx to design audio systems.

VW is a much better cad system, but it can't calculate sound absorption / reflection off different surfaces. Much the same way it can't calculate light absorption / reflection off surfaces -even the Spotlight photometric grid fakes it. If you put a brick wall between the lighting instrument and the photometric grid, the footcandle levels remain unchanged! (VW+RW will render light bouncing off surfaces, but won't analyze it.)

Neatworkz is truly mind blowing. It does everything from drawing schematics to producing schedules to laying out racks to calculating cable lengths to.... But it won't help calculate the acoustic performance of a speaker or array in a space.

mk

[C. Andrew Dunning]

It really is a wonder that there is SO much lighting available to CAD users via Vectorworks, but so little in the way of sound. But I guess that's a good indicator of what drives the industry.

I'd echo your surprise - and that was one of the things I pondered before developing the Audio ToolSet tools, but from a "potential" standpoint: Do Vectorworks audio tools not exist because there aren't audio - oriented users? Or, are audio folk not using Vectorworks because the tools they need don't exist? Knowing that I had ZERO intention of event approaching the complexity of software like EASE, I decided that there was enough potential there to test the waters w. an initial offering. So far, the response has been good and I'm willing to give things a bit of time to reveal forther need and potential.

[C. Andrew Dunning]

there is a suite of tools from a company called neatworkz that are designed to offer sound design tools for Vectorworks. I have seen this and for complex sound design this is a very cool solution.

I'd echo this. Conrad's tools are pretty amazing. I haven't seen many tools (3rd-party OR stock) w. the level of detail he offers. For anyone doing detailed audio or network system design, you've got to take a look.

[Christoph Janssen]

Andy,

could you expand on the possibility to extract information from the sound database?

In addition to your other question: soundguys and VW: I think because most pa manufacturers provide their own tools for simulation or presets for ease going through VW means twice the effort. I'm still hoping that L-Acoustics, Meyer Sound, D&B, JBL etc. might provide export functionality to dwg. That would be extremly helpful!

Best regards,

Chris

[C. Andrew Dunning]

could you expand on the possibility to extract information from the sound database?

Sure...

Below are screen-shots of the OIPs for AudioBox and Audio Array. Each field in the OIPs represents a database field. So, for example, you could have VW generate an AudioArray report showing cabinet brands, box counts, bumper and bottom box trims, and column weights - all sub sorted by Column IDs.

[img:center]http://www.landrudesign.com/AudioBox.jpg[/img]

[img:center]http://www.landrudesign.com/AudioArray.jpg[/img]

That answer your question?

In addition to your other question: soundguys and VW: I think because most pa manufacturers provide their own tools for simulation or presets for ease going through VW means twice the effort.

I knew about the different proprietary software packages when I started - and that was one of the things I asked some of my audio friends. After consulting w. them and others in the VW community, the two conclusions I reached were:

- Audio engineers would continue to use the non-VW packages. The sheer amount of proprietary information they handle is something beyond what I was wanting to create - at least as an initial offering. Also, the person using one of the "higher" packages might or might not be interested in including some of the other elements a lot of VW users include.

- There was a definite need for a simple VW tool - one that "general" production folk (not just audio engineers) could use to make quick estimates, create general layouts, check interraction w. other departments, add reconfigurable PAs to renderings, etc.