Make the "insert location" indicator (in component buildups) less confusing

[line-weight]

This is just a small thing but it gives me a headache each time I deal with it because what it visually suggests is the opposite to what it actually means.

 

Here, it looks like it's indicating a reference point on the interface between the brick & plaster layers, but it actually is indicating a reference point on the interface between the brick & insulation layers:

 

 

Here, it looks like it's indicating a reference point on the interface between the brick & insulation layers, but it actually is indicating a reference point on the interface between the brick & plaster layers:

 

 

 

The reason the first example suggests the reference is between the brick & plaster is that mentally I extend the line like this:

 

 

Something like this would be less ambiguous

 

 

 

Don't really expect that this will be fixed in my lifetime, just wanted to get it off my chest.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by line-weight

[Tom W.]

OMG this is crazy!! I never use the Wall Insert Location settings - I always set the insert location in the PIO options - so had no idea this was the case! Surely this must be a mistake? The 'Insert Loc' arrow in the example below clearly indicates the PIO will insert aligned with the left edge of Wall component 3. Why would the wall diagram above + the insert loc symbol below be oriented in different directions??!

 

 

 

@Matt Panzer? Surely this isn't how it's meant to be?

[line-weight]

That's weird.

 

Where exactly is that screenshot from, the options for what?

 

I'd assumed this was because that symbol started out as something used to indicate whether a reference point was on the underside or top face of an object, perhaps before multi component objects were a thing.

[line-weight]

It appears in slabs too, for the reference datum, but with a confirmatory radio button above which is either "top of component" or bottom.

 

[Tom W.]

Yes it's always been there for Slabs, Roofs + Hardscapes but only recently for Walls (I think) - since Wall Closures in VW2022 perhaps? My screenshot was from the 'Edit Wall Style' dialog. I assumed your screenshots were the same.

 

The thing is for slabs/roofs/hardscapes it's pretty straightforward to tell that the arrow is pointing up or down. For walls it's a case of left or right, for which we rely on the diagram above with the little arrow giving the wall's direction + therefore which side is left + which side is right. That's why it's so crazy the arrow in the component list is pointing in the opposite direction (or rather has the opposite effect in the model).

[Matt Panzer]

19 minutes ago, Tom W. said:

OMG this is crazy!! I never use the Wall Insert Location settings - I always set the insert location in the PIO options - so had no idea this was the case! Surely this must be a mistake? The 'Insert Loc' arrow in the example below clearly indicates the PIO will insert aligned with the left edge of Wall component 3. Why would the wall diagram above + the insert loc symbol below be oriented in different directions??!

 

 

 

@Matt Panzer? Surely this isn't how it's meant to be?

 

This is as designed.  The line of the icon is the component and the arrow points to the face (or centerline) for the insert location.  As @line-weight noted, the data for the slab works the same way to indicate top or bottom.

[Tom W.]

2 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

This is as designed.  The line of the icon is the component and the arrow points to the face (or centerline) for the insert location.  As @line-weight noted, the data for the slab works the same way to indicate top or bottom.

 

Ah ok sorry I see. I realise now I actually find the slab etc icon confusing too but there I can check whether it says 'top of component' or 'bottom of component' to confirm what it is I'm looking at. Which is precisely what @line-weight says in his post. Ok. got it!

[line-weight]

The thing is that a component has thickness, so it should really be represented with a rectangle not a line.

In conventional architectural drawings, you'd not generally use that symbol to point at just a line, you'd use it to point at the top or bottom of a slab, which is a thing with thickness, and having the arrow point up or down helps with legibility (quickly understand that something refers to a ceiling level, say).

If a symbol like that is use on a line, like for a reference datum level, then it doesn't technically matter whether it's pointing up or down... because a line has no thickness.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, line-weight said:

The thing is that a component has thickness, so it should really be represented with a rectangle not a line.

 

Definitely! This would make it crystal clear it's pointing to the outside face + not the inside edge which is what it currently looks like, even for slabs etc.

[zoomer]

The logic of the symbol may be totally correct ... but I am also not clever enough to use it correctly.

I often needed several tries.

[line-weight]

1 hour ago, Matt Panzer said:

 

This is as designed.  The line of the icon is the component and the arrow points to the face (or centerline) for the insert location.  As @line-weight noted, the data for the slab works the same way to indicate top or bottom.

Is there any good reason not to change that design, to make everyone's life a bit easier?

Edited November 6, 2023 by line-weight

[Matt Panzer]

30 minutes ago, line-weight said:

Is there any good reason not to change that design, to make everyone's life a bit easier?

 

No reason and I agree the icons could be clearer.

I just submitted an enhancement request (VE-105241) for this.

[bob cleaver]

the setting for the hardscape finish materials may need splitting the finish material so the height above the site model is slightly above the site model:

a 6" thick finish material is not 6" above the site model when 2" above site model my be the desired effect -