Data and Hoists

[AStein]

So, I'm still very bummed that the new hoists are so... not good... But I can't keep using the legacy hoists because they're slow and non-riggers never use them...

 

Anyway, My current gripe is that I can't figure out how to change the maximum chain length. I have to be pretty clever about how I move these things around or it throws hanging positions and hook heights around.

 

I've tried attaching hoist data records and modifying that (as I saw suggested in another thread), but that only changed the data record, not the useability of the hoist symbol itself. 

 

Any ideas? 

 

Vectorworks people: I would LOVE to spend a little time on the phone with someone to help you design a useful hoist symbol. I'm not sure where the disconnect is here but, to a person, I do not know a single production rigger who likes this thing. Please let me or somebody help you out here. The only reason I keep hearing about the "production Assistant" software is because we're desperate for something. I just spent the past few days wrestling with this and making workarounds for a tool that isn't nearly as complicated as many of the other wonderful and not broken tools in the VWX arsenal. 

 

[JustinVanHassel]

Have you tried changing the ChainLength field in the HoistObjectData record of the symbol? I just did this in VW2024 and changed the max chain length to 40m and I was able to make the chains longer when I inserted the symbol using the high hook height in the OIP. When I tried to make the high hook height longer than the maximum chain length I received a dialog popup telling me that I will need to add a bridle. Keep in mind those lengths are in mm in the record.

[AStein]

I have, but there were a ton of those data records in my resources. I tried 5 of them (in mm of course) to no avail. Maybe I need to attach all of them, see which one works and tag it somehow?

 

I wonder if a data tag will talk to the object as a workaround? I could give that a try...

 

But wow these are broken...

[Scott C. Parker]

2 hours ago, AStein said:

I tried 5 of them (in mm of course) to no avail.

What were the steps you did when trying to change the length?

To change a symbol's default, you'll need to right-click it in the resource manager and choose the Attach Record option. Find the hoist record and edit the record. Save, and you should be good to go.
I entered 30000mm for one as a test, which worked as expected. Once I changed the max, I could enter the 80' chain length shown in my screenshot.

[AStein]

That did it, thank you Scott. I was trying to attach a record over in the data pallet, but it looks like every hoist object has this record already attached, so no wonder it did nothing when I was attaching random others. Your walkthrough above got me there. I'm having trouble understanding how some data records can be referenced by symbols and "live" inside those symbols while others just seem to ride on the symbols, but not be able to talk to them... Maybe that's for future me...

 

While I have you... I'm wondering if there's some kind of way to attach data tags to hoist symbols by default? Not a huge deal because the option to tag all eligible objects is powerful, but it would be nice if I could set a few tags ahead of time.

 

Thanks for your time.

[BRSebbe]

On 10/18/2023 at 4:40 AM, Scott C. Parker said:

What were the steps you did when trying to change the length?

To change a symbol's default, you'll need to right-click it in the resource manager and choose the Attach Record option. Find the hoist record and edit the record. Save, and you should be good to go.
I entered 30000mm for one as a test, which worked as expected. Once I changed the max, I could enter the 80' chain length shown in my screenshot.

Has there been a recent update that removes this way of doing it? 

 

I work with several different suppliers, all of whom have different hoists and lengths of chain, im trying to find a quick way to either make symbols for each company, or make some attachable records to use. The way discussed here seems good, although i cannot seem to be able to do it! 

When i right click a symbol in the resource manager all i get is this 

[JustinVanHassel]

@BRSebbeYou need to have the symbol downloaded into your document before you can access any of the symbol edit commands. It does not need to be inserted into your drawing, but it does need to be in the Resource Manager of your working document, not on the cloud.

[BRSebbe]

On 2/26/2024 at 2:55 PM, JustinVH said:

@BRSebbeYou need to have the symbol downloaded into your document before you can access any of the symbol edit commands. It does not need to be inserted into your drawing, but it does need to be in the Resource Manager of your working document, not on the cloud.

Ah, that does it. Thank you.

[Peter Telleman]

Hi,

 

Coming back at this, I've edited a hoist, gave it a maximum chain length, weight, chainweight, connector and such. Now when I use that hoist in another drawing, it has not retained any of that info (except for maximum chain length)

What I want to do is have a standard hoist that has all of that information, and always has 24 meters of chain. How do I save those specifications for future use?

 

Thanks,

 

Peter

[jcogdell]

@Peter Telleman
You have to edit the hoist symbols attached data record in the resource manager once you have imported it. Make sure to rename it and save it into your workgroup or user library.
If you don't rename it then whenever the original hoist from the default libraries is used it will overwrite any edits or changes you have made to the symbol.
Heres a copy of one of my hoist libraries with both 18m and 24m hoistsMetric Hoists.vwx

[Peter Telleman]

@jcogdell

Thanks Jesse,

 

The renaming it was probably the issue. So I'll take a hoist, duplicate it, make the changes in the duplicate, and then rename and save it??

 

When I do that, the weight of the hoist is still wrong, and the connector hasn't saved. Pretty strange that it apparently does remember the new chain weight, but not the hoist weight. And the amount of chain changes, depending on the high hook height, does that mean the live chain, but for the total weight it does use the 24 meters?

 

thank you,

 

Peter

Edited October 1, 2024 by Peter Telleman

[jcogdell]

Onl yrename it once, as long as the new name isn't the same as the original from the Vectorworks library it should be fine

 

[jcogdell]

The total weight includes the complete 24m of chain, its calculated based on the values entered in the data record.
It should be a fixed value based on (the max chain length x weight per meter of the chain) + weight of the body of the hoist.
 

[Peter Telleman]

@jcogdell

 

Thanks for the answer about the 24meters of chain included in the weight, in both hoist records I changed the weight for the body and the chain, but in the object info it looks like it only retained the chain weight and not the body weight

Edited October 1, 2024 by Peter Telleman

[jcogdell]

What units did you use when entering the data in the record?
you need to use grams for the hoist weight and mm for the chain length

[Peter Telleman]

Hi jesse,

 

So grams for the hoist weight and chain weight? That changes a lot, i used kg, I did use mm for chain length. Now if I adapt that, does that mean I need to rename it again? And last and most certainly least, can I keep the connector type saved with the hoist? I did fill it in with connector in the record.

[jcogdell]

You should be good to go once you have made the edit with the weight in grams, no need to rename the symbol again.

On the connector, currently the data record connector field isn't connected to anything in the OIP,
so you would either have to use the drop down everytime you insert the symbol or configure the symbol how you want and then save it as a 'red symbol' by using the convert to plugin check box in the create symbol command dialogue.
or add a consumer electrical component to the symbol definition in the resource manager with the correct connector and power data

 

[Peter Telleman]

Thank you very much, this should help me set up our hoist library.

[Peter Telleman]

@jcogdell

Hi

 

Running into something strange (to me), so i've set up a library file with a number of hoists. But if I open one of those symbols in an empty drawing, it keeps putting in the first symbol, no matter which one I pick afterwards. I have no clue what I did wrong here, can someone steer me in the right direction?

 

thanks,

 

Peter

 

Hoists 2025.vwx

Edited October 17, 2024 by Peter Telleman

[jcogdell]

@Peter Telleman
This is a known bug and the fix is currently being tested, if all goes well it will be addressed in update 2.
You can get round the issue by using the resource selector in the hoist tool to select your hoists instead of using the resource manager.

[Peter Telleman]

@jcogdell

 

Updated to update 2, issue resolved, thank you Vectorworks!