Rotate vs Mirror or ¿ is there an alternate to Mirror for Extrudes, Symbols etcetera ?

[Elite Exhibits]

Question:

Rotate vs Mirror or ¿ is there an alternate to Mirror for Extrudes, Symbols etcetera ?

 

Being forced to recreate items and / or take up an alternate workflow - ie: do NOT mirror Extrudes, Symbols etcetera anymore !

When possible duplicate and rotate vs mirror. Or (UGH!) take Extrudes / Symbols apart and recreate in the new design from the fundamental geometry - possibly in several iterations.

 

Some of this is based on editing old or inherited Hybrid Symbols (Made from extrudes...) that do very strange things based on where and how the original was created.

Combine the Component Edit Mode complications with Paste and Paste in Place that do NOT behave as expected, and VW/RW creates one aggravating situation.

 

 

 

Question

        ¿Is there a way to Mirror in VW/RW (... a preference setting?) that keeps these specific items in the Mirrored location, vs going back to edit in the original "zero-zero" location of creation ?)

 

 

 

Thanks to Andy B comments (BUG), we have stopped editing Extrudes, Symbols etcetera on the drawing and attempt to only edit such items from within the Resource Manager. 

This eliminates one aggravation: the Rotated Plan effect. (File is a single Design Layer).

 

 

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Assumptions:

Where an extrude is created, is where it will go back to when you double click to edit.

The item remains on the Screen in its current Screen location (Top/Plan), only the page moves (...& rotates) to the X-Y  location of creation. This requires the use of 3D Move, for example, vs 2D move. Even though the orientation / indication / notation would indicate otherwise.

Same thing for Symbols (?) - It is a double whammy here if the Symbol is created from an Extrude.

Workflow Best Bet" "zero-zero" should always be the location of creation.

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Question: ¿ How does one eliminate the Rotated Plan Effect ? (Short of hitting Command-A, Command 5, Command 4 every time you edit a ...)

 

 

(VW/RW Designer 2020 - iMac Pro )

 

Suggestions are always appreciated !

 

Peter

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, Elite Exhibits said:

Being forced to recreate items and / or take up an alternate workflow - ie: do NOT mirror Extrudes, Symbols etcetera anymore !

When possible duplicate and rotate vs mirror.

 

 

Same for me.

 

AFAIR, for Extrudes containing more than a single 2D Object,

you shouldn't even rotate or move them !

 

I think the problem is that VW once decided, that nearly all object types

with edit modes have to have their own internal origin (?) and plane orientation,

just like Symbol do (which makes sense there)

 

Once you move, mirror or rotate these objects (sometimes even nested) around,

even VW itself sometimes gets confused and loses overview between all its

nested Container Object's planes and how to interact between.

How to deal with various object types 2D/3D orientations inside or how to deal

with the Environment geometries outside of the Edit Mode bubble,

like for snapping.

[LarryO]

These are some hints that I use to deal with the complicated aspect of internal origins and 3d drawing plane rotation of extrudes place all over a drawing environment.

Always try to layout the 2d geometry of an extrude at the layer origin 0,0,0 or in a logical relationship to x,y,z. ie centre a rectangle so the middle is at 0,0,0.

Rotate the 2d outline about the x or y axis if that makes for an easier use, prior to extruding it.

Pressing zero in the keypad twice while in extrude edit mode will reorient to the extrude's internal origin and go to wireframe.

Going to wire frame and back to shaded mode will often times (but not always) regenerate lost snapping points.

If it easier to generate the instance of an extrude at a particular location away from the origin do so but make a duplicate, edit duplicate and move geometry to a logical place relative to the origin, exit edit mode and move/rotate the duplicate instance into position over the original and then delete original.

There will be times where you have similar instances which in which symbols are not the solution. Like a post that varies in height with the same detailing at the ends as all other instances. You can place one end of the post profile at layer origin and your details as a symbol or extrude at each end and then group them. Once grouped move them into location as you would a symbol. Then anytime you want to add a particular aspect to all of these similar items that couldn't be represented as symbols you need only paste in place from one to the next. The pasted item will use the group origin as it's setting out reference.

It is good to understand that an extrude is 2d geometry laid on a flat 2d plane but if the geometry is rotated about the x or y axis, or raised/lowered away from z=0 before extruding it will become 3d geometry on a flat plane that behaves more like a 3d plane inside the extrude.

You can always use Set Working Plane and then Look at Working Plane to temporarily reorient the plane for easier rotations and if you use Set Working Plane a second time it is easier to choose a more logical origin on the reoriented plane from which to do a rotation, mirror or move.

[livespace josha]

I have also had issues with the mirror tool and items being rotated in an orientation that isn't logical (...to me!).

 

I wish there was an option to "Mirror, but retain orientation"

 

The only workaround I've found is to set up your 0,0 right on your centerline, and then duplicate in place and swap your X or Y value (negative-or-positive or positive-to-negative)

 

 

If I was better at scripting or marionette, I'd make a plug-in to do this, but I've never ventured into that. 

[zoomer]

2 hours ago, livespace josha said:

I have also had issues with the mirror tool

 

I still do not use mirror in CAD at all !

 

I had nothing than problems in my CAD beginning.

Mirroring may look OK in your own App, but as soon as you need

export/exchange into other Apps it so often failed.

I still workaround with copying, rotating and rebuilding where possible

or just creating "mirrored" Symbol Duplicates manually.

Even if you stay in VW, there are enough Tools where mirroring will

just cause problems (Mirroring Doors and such ...)

 

Sad, but I still did not reach real confidence ....

[Elite Exhibits]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:25 PM, LarryO said:

These are some hints that I use to deal with the complicated aspect of internal origins and 3d drawing plane rotation of extrudes place all over a drawing environment.

 

 

 

LarryO

 

A big thanks for your input, much appreciated

 

Peter

[livespace josha]

To further reinforce my point about unexpected behavior when using the mirror tool:

 

I placed a projection screen. Edited rotation, screen size, lens, throw, elevation, etc.

 

Mirrored that over the center-line, and all appears perfect...

 

...until you place text labels. Both of these projectors are set to "Keep Text Horizontal"