Tom W. Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 I can attach Records to objects inside symbols then report on those Records in a database report if I tell it to search inside symbols. But can I get a Data Tag to do something similar + see inside the symbol rather than just see the symbol itself? e.g. if I want to tag the separate objects inside the symbol. I was thinking I could try using the worksheet formula which finds a record inside a symbol in the data tag + see if that worked but then I couldn't figure out what that formula would be...!! So for example, if this is my database report + it is finding the records attached to six objects within a symbol... ...how would I report the same information but doing it cell by cell within a criteria report? I was looking at FORMATFIELD + OBJECTDATA functions but couldn't get anything to work. Thanks 3 Quote Link to comment
Samuel Derenboim Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 I second the request. I would call this something like nested records 4 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 12 hours ago, Tom W. said: I was thinking I could try using the worksheet formula which finds a record inside a symbol in the data tag + see if that worked but then I couldn't figure out what that formula would be...!! Ok I've gone back over my notes + realised that you can't use criteria-based functions in a Data Tag so this was never going to work. @Nikolay Zhelyazkov would you be able to confirm that at present there's no way to use a Data Tag to tag an object within a symbol? Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted August 31, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted August 31, 2022 Hello @Tom W., Well, you can put data tags directly inside the symbol to tag its contents, but this is not recommended as it might cause scaling issues of the data tags. However, there are some improvements planned in this direction so this might become a valid and supported workflow in the future. Also, if you make your symbols convert to group on insertion, then there is no problem to add data tags in them as on insertion they get converted to a group and there should not be any scaling issues. As for tagging symbol contents from outside the symbol, I am afraid that this is something that is not possible at this time. Best Regards, Nikolay Zhelyazkov 3 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted August 31, 2022 Author Share Posted August 31, 2022 Thanks for getting back to me Nikolay. Basically the case in point is where I've converted a number of objects - steel beams in this case - into a single hybrid symbol in order to get the desired Top/Plan representation (instead of using Auto Hybrid). So making it a blue Group symbol is not appropriate as I lose the hybrid nature of the object. And I am tagging them in the annotations of a VP so can't enter the symbol to do it anyway. So what I did instead was rather than having the six steel beams contained within a single symbol I created six individual symbols then put them in a Group to keep them all together. Then in a VP the Data Tag can see the individual symbols within the Group. This is fine, it's just often preferable to combine multiple objects into a single symbol rather than create lots of individual symbols. 33 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said: Well, you can put data tags directly inside the symbol to tag its contents, but this is not recommended as it might cause scaling issues of the data tags. However, there are some improvements planned in this direction so this might become a valid and supported workflow in the future. 33 minutes ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said: As for tagging symbol contents from outside the symbol, I am afraid that this is something that is not possible at this time. Would the improvement allow tagging objects inside symbols in viewports or would it need to be done on the design layer? 2 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted August 31, 2022 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted August 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tom W. said: Would the improvement allow tagging objects inside symbols in viewports or would it need to be done on the design layer? The improvements that I was referring to are about tagging inside of symbols directly while in the edit symbol context. So I think that they will not help you much with your case here. 1 Quote Link to comment
Mark Aceto Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 8 hours ago, Tom W. said: Basically the case in point is where I've converted a number of objects - steel beams in this case - into a single hybrid symbol in order to get the desired Top/Plan representation (instead of using Auto Hybrid). A friend who's not me wonders if there may be an improved workflow to achieve that desired representation in two weeks... 1 Quote Link to comment
TaylorK Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 Has anyone found a workaround for this? We use symbols for our apartment unit layouts and would love to be able to tag the doors and walls in those symbols, but the data tags reset the scale weirdly.. 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted July 13, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted July 13, 2023 7 hours ago, TaylorK said: Has anyone found a workaround for this? We use symbols for our apartment unit layouts and would love to be able to tag the doors and walls in those symbols, but the data tags reset the scale weirdly.. - In VW 2023 you can use the World Based option in the data tag and tag objects from inside the edit symbol context. 3 Quote Link to comment
Marco Zavagno Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 HI Nikolay! Do you mean that it is possible to single tag an object inside a symbol? is it possible with multiple objects with records inside one symbol? 1 Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted July 13, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted July 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Marco Zavagno said: HI Nikolay! Do you mean that it is possible to single tag an object inside a symbol? is it possible with multiple objects with records inside one symbol? Hello @Marco Zavagno, You can add multiple data tags in the symbol definition that tag different objects. 2 Quote Link to comment
Marco Zavagno Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 oh ok I thought it was possible doing it from the design layer or viewport. Another thing is that tags dont work with referenced in entities. too bad Quote Link to comment
cberg Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 Just curious. Does VW2024 add this functionality? Playing around with it, and I do not see any changes... Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted September 18, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted September 18, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 12:26 AM, cberg said: Just curious. Does VW2024 add this functionality? Playing around with it, and I do not see any changes... Hello @cberg, If you are asking about tagging objects in symbols from outside of the symbol, this is still not possible. You still have to enter the symbol and add your data tags there. Best Regards, Nikolay Zhelyazkov 2 Quote Link to comment
cberg Posted September 18, 2023 Share Posted September 18, 2023 Thank you for your response @Nikolay Zhelyazkov. It would still be great to implement this feature. (Tagging objects in symbols from outside the symbol). 1 Quote Link to comment
Tom W. Posted September 18, 2023 Author Share Posted September 18, 2023 11 hours ago, Nikolay Zhelyazkov said: You still have to enter the symbol and add your data tags there. Probably fine if you do your tagging on the Design Layer but I am doing it all in VP annotations. If you have symbols inside a Group, and both the Group itself + the symbols inside it have Record attached to them, in a VP you can choose to tag either the Group or the symbols inside. Would it be a massive stretch for the same thing to occur with symbols inside of symbols or is it a completely different kettle of fish? Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted September 19, 2023 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted September 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Tom W. said: Probably fine if you do your tagging on the Design Layer but I am doing it all in VP annotations. If you have symbols inside a Group, and both the Group itself + the symbols inside it have Record attached to them, in a VP you can choose to tag either the Group or the symbols inside. Would it be a massive stretch for the same thing to occur with symbols inside of symbols or is it a completely different kettle of fish? Symbols are not the same as groups. Symbols are just viewports/pointers/views, or whatever similar term comes to your mind, of the symbol definitions that they refer to. Symbol objects on the drawing do not have any actual graphics in them, they just have a reference to the symbol definition and show it. So basically, if you have 2 symbols instances of a symbol with a rectangle in it, you have the same rectangle displayed twice. And that is why it is not that simple to just tag objects inside symbols. 4 Quote Link to comment
BrettMac Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Hi @Nikolay Zhelyazkov, Can you clarify how you change between world and page based units for data tags? Our current wall assembly tag appears to be world based (red text in resource manager), and we're having trouble with the tag size becoming very small depending on the scale of the viewport. As soon as you "touch" the tag it reverts to the correct size, but it's annoying to have to shift every single assembly tag before we export. I've attached a screenshot as well as the affected file. On a related note, does Vectorworks have a recommended workflow for projects with repeated unit layouts (ie hospitals or multifamily)? Currently we are setting up our unit layouts as symbols so we only have to change them in one spot, but when it comes to tagging/annotating we're running into issues like our assembly tags. Similarly, often times our styled walls refuse to show any height when inside a symbol. Should we be setting our unit layouts up differently? Apologies for the run-on question but I have a suspicion all of these issues are related... Any help would be greatly appreciated 21082-NBA-BP Copy.vwx Quote Link to comment
TaylorK Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 26 minutes ago, BrettMac said: Hi @Nikolay Zhelyazkov, Can you clarify how you change between world and page based units for data tags? Our current wall assembly tag appears to be world based (red text in resource manager), and we're having trouble with the tag size becoming very small depending on the scale of the viewport. As soon as you "touch" the tag it reverts to the correct size, but it's annoying to have to shift every single assembly tag before we export. I've attached a screenshot as well as the affected file. On a related note, does Vectorworks have a recommended workflow for projects with repeated unit layouts (ie hospitals or multifamily)? Currently we are setting up our unit layouts as symbols so we only have to change them in one spot, but when it comes to tagging/annotating we're running into issues like our assembly tags. Similarly, often times our styled walls refuse to show any height when inside a symbol. Should we be setting our unit layouts up differently? Apologies for the run-on question but I have a suspicion all of these issues are related... Any help would be greatly appreciated 21082-NBA-BP Copy.vwx 28.03 MB · 0 downloads Hi Brett, I haven't been able to get tags within symbols to scale either. For repeating unit layouts here is a thread on the topic. We're using symbols as well as we like to attach unit data to them and organize them in a worksheet but we're running into the same issues. As well as some issues with project sharing resettting walls. Recommendation is to strip out any storey based information from your symbols and manually set your wall heights. So basically demising & exterior walls outside symbols, unit walls/doors & fixtures in symbols. They're currently researching / looking to impliment a repeated unit tool. Hopefully that comes soon. -Taylor Quote Link to comment
BrettMac Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Thank you @TaylorK, this is very helpful! We're setting up our walls the same way, we must just have some lingering storey based information to weed out. Sounds like we'll just have to stay tuned for updates on a repeated unit too. Cheers, Brett Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted January 8 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted January 8 On 1/5/2024 at 2:14 AM, BrettMac said: Hi @Nikolay Zhelyazkov, Can you clarify how you change between world and page based units for data tags? Our current wall assembly tag appears to be world based (red text in resource manager), and we're having trouble with the tag size becoming very small depending on the scale of the viewport. As soon as you "touch" the tag it reverts to the correct size, but it's annoying to have to shift every single assembly tag before we export. I've attached a screenshot as well as the affected file. On a related note, does Vectorworks have a recommended workflow for projects with repeated unit layouts (ie hospitals or multifamily)? Currently we are setting up our unit layouts as symbols so we only have to change them in one spot, but when it comes to tagging/annotating we're running into issues like our assembly tags. Similarly, often times our styled walls refuse to show any height when inside a symbol. Should we be setting our unit layouts up differently? Apologies for the run-on question but I have a suspicion all of these issues are related... Any help would be greatly appreciated 21082-NBA-BP Copy.vwx 28.03 MB · 0 downloads I am not seeing any data tags in the viewports in this file. Can you point me to the place where the tags that get scaled are located at? Quote Link to comment
BrettMac Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 @Nikolay Zhelyazkov the data tags are located on the design layer, within each of the unit layout symbols, they are on the Wall-Spec class. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee Nikolay Zhelyazkov Posted January 16 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted January 16 @BrettMac Thanks, now I was able to see the problem. In your file the data tag style is actually page based (green in the resource manager). You have to do the following to make your data tags world based and avoid this scaling issue: 1) Locate the data tag style in the resource manager and edit it 2) Select World Based and click on the button left from it to make it By Style as shown in the image below 3) Now your data tags are world based and might look bigger/smaller than before. If this is the case, edit the data tag layout and scale it to be the size you want 4) You should not see the scaling issue anymore Let me know if you still have any issues. Best Regards, Nikolay Zhelyazkov 1 Quote Link to comment
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