Braceworks Frustration

[wkwiat]

Hi All,

 

Looking for some help and direction. I am trying to estimate the weight of a truss grid with decking. Its a 36' (L) x 12' (W) x 12' (H) grid out of Tyler 12" truss. I am stuck at the first layer with the truss connections. I keep getting a warning "Cross section types do not match". I read a few posts about corner blocks and I have tried to use the correct corner blocks for the drawing and not what I am using in actuality, ie 5-way verses 3-way. I have attached a screen shot of where i am at currently....

Edited April 21, 2019 by wkwiat

[SCParker]

 I’m not at my computer at the moment but it will be helpful if you could post the file. Short of that, post a screenshot of each of the configuration windows for the braceworks objects. 

[wkwiat]

Thanks for the reply Scott! Any help would be much welcomed.

 

I uploaded a stripped file of the truss structure I am trying to calculate. Let me know if you need any further information about the structure and thanks again for your time!

 

Decking Structure v1.vwx

[SCParker]

wkwiat,

I think the two types of truss you're working with are different. As in, one is the "AV" line and the other is the "Bolt" line. The corners seem to work with the AV line of truss. The workaround is an 11 step process that I've been able to figure out and you'll need to do it three times. One each for each truss object. You'll basically be resetting the cross section to 12" for each item and it should work after that.

It might be easier to change the truss types in future.

I hope this helps.

Note that my workaround is likely not the "correct" way of dealing with this, but it worked. 🙂

Also note that this likely changes what an engineer would need if one is needed. If you want to calculate weight, you'll to add hoists. I know it's ground supported, but Braceworks doesn't understand ground support.

 

Best, Scott

 

[wkwiat]

I did notice in the object info window for each item that the cross section type was different but that they were both "connectable" with each others type. They are all Tyler truss elements. When you say "It might be easier to change the truss types in future." you mean change the manufacture? It is for reference anyway. It is ultimately ground support but we are intending to use hoists to lift for the build. I was making sure the truss was working before adding hoists. I have struggled with braceworks at times and learned to take it in parts.

 

I also have to "attach" decks to the structure. In real life they will be secured with hardware and straps, but how would get that weight represented correctly? Would the best thing be to add a distributed weight load to the structure?

 

Thanks for your time Scott and anyone reading!

 

Wayne

[wkwiat]

Another thing I have been trying and failing is using grapples?

[SCParker]

8 hours ago, wkwiat said:

Another thing I have been trying and failing is using grapples?

This is one that you'll fair better by inserting corner blocks for most of your work and then change out for grapples after your calculation needs are done. Straight truss currently do not have a way of having this attached off to the side. Or, placing the side truss under/over the main truss line to make that connection point.

[JustinVH]

Keep in mind that the Tyler Truss symbols do not have cross section data and are missing some of the weights.  We have tried to get the necessary data from them but have been told they are not willing to release it to us at this time.

[wkwiat]

Thanks for the response Justin.

 

I did notice the missing weights of the corner blocks and added that in manually. I know the database is expanding and information sharing, in our industry, moves slower than most.

[theatre4jc]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:23 AM, JustinVH said:

Keep in mind that the Tyler Truss symbols do not have cross section data and are missing some of the weights.  We have tried to get the necessary data from them but have been told they are not willing to release it to us at this time.

This is extremely frustrating right here.  We are trying to make our industry safer and work easier and a major manufacturer is unwilling to work with others.  Yeah I'm trying to find out the weight of a Tyler Truss 12x18x96" stick and that's frustrating.

[JustinVH]

I would recommend to contact them and voice your frustration.  Sometimes the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" approach can help to show a manufacturer that they need to be more forthright with their data or risk losing customers to other manufacturers that are sharing weights and structural data.

[LMorga]

12 hours ago, theatre4jc said:

This is extremely frustrating right here.  We are trying to make our industry safer and work easier and a major manufacturer is unwilling to work with others.  Yeah I'm trying to find out the weight of a Tyler Truss 12x18x96" stick and that's frustrating.

 

 

I called Tyler Truss about a week ago, they sent me the information I requested thru email, promptly. 

[Mike Rock]

Bringing back the thread for the same issue in VW 2024. I'm trying to get an XSF 6 way corner block play nicely with some Tomcat 12" truss. I've tried to follow the instructions SCParker posted but was unable to have success. I'd like to be able to set the Cross Section UID tag manually but can't figure out where that info is stored.  

Truss Cross Section Issue.vwx

[JustinVH]

You need to make sure that the Type in the Object Data is set to the same name as the Connectable With field. Both Tomcat and XSF have stated they will not give us their cross section data so those cross sections will not be available in the drop down as choices. You should just be able to edit the connectable with field.

[JustinVH]

@Mike RockI am adding a correction post because I realized I omitted a step. The Tomcat has the UUID assigned because we run an internal only script when we ship the symbols to assign that UUID and Cross Section ID to all symbols. In order to remove the UUID you need to click on the Change Cross Section button and assign the ID to Rigid. Once you close that selection dialog enter the dimensions again as they will default to zero and make sure your Connects With matches the Type.

 

Fixed file is attached.

Mike Rock Truss Cross Section Issue Fix.vwx

[Mike Rock]

Thanks for the file, so to avoid the cross section mismatch I will need to remove the Cross Section UID for all components of the system? 

[JustinVH]

Yes, remove the UUID by setting everything to Rigid or use one of the cross sections from the drop down and set that to every symbol. You can also make your own custom cross section but it will live internally within your drawing only and cannot be exported or shared.

[LMorga]

Hey @JustinVH jumping in here for a similar subject. Where is the built in cross sections or script for the uuid's I want to make my own an not have a "user" custom cross section... is this possible to mod a JSON or similar to get what I need?

[klinzey]

@LMorga User generated cross sections need to remain as user cross sections and remain with the individual file.
When you select a cross section we don't import the data into the document, so allowing users to customize the default data may cause issues when exchanging files with other users.
Because of the nature of structural calculations it's important for us to know if we are calculating using user data or the default data.
Updating or repairing the application would remove any customized data.

[LMorga]

@klinzey

 

Totally get it... we have symbols and cross sections of truss that don't exist in VW yet. We are programming and sharing across the nation. I created a cross section to function with the symbols until they are created.

[Mike Rock]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:25 AM, JustinVH said:

@Mike RockI am adding a correction post because I realized I omitted a step. The Tomcat has the UUID assigned because we run an internal only script when we ship the symbols to assign that UUID and Cross Section ID to all symbols. In order to remove the UUID you need to click on the Change Cross Section button and assign the ID to Rigid. Once you close that selection dialog enter the dimensions again as they will default to zero and make sure your Connects With matches the Type.

 

Fixed file is attached.

Mike Rock Truss Cross Section Issue Fix.vwx 6.41 MB · 3 downloads

 

I needed to add a custom bit of truss to my company's library, in order to get the new symbol to play nicely with the rest of them I had to remove the cross section UID from 21 objects in order to make the system work in any configuration. I understand the reasoning for locking the factory symbols to a cross section but this is a major effort work around. Please consider adding a way to streamline the process or provide the resources for 48 hour turn around on VW created objects.