Text Scale in Symbol

[AndySmithArch]

Hi all. I think I'm missing something obvious.

 

I can create a symbol from a group but when I insert it back into the same drawing in which it was originally created (even the same design layer that it was created from), I'm finding that my text scale changes.

 

For example, a simple square room with a SPACE tool showing the floor area. I build the room using walls, slab, etc and place the space tool on it. The text appears fine and is automatically set at - I believe - Arial 14pt and 12pt. No problem so far.

 

Then I convert the items into a group and then convert the group into a Symbol (World-based or Page-based scale doesn't affect this issue). The symbol shows up in the Resource Browser. I add an instance of the symbol to the drawing. I can see the space tool is there (because of its fill colour) but I cannot see the Arial 14/12pt text showing the area. If I zoom in to around 10000% I see that the text is still there but is tiny. It appears to have scaled to real world scale, despite me being on a 1/4" = 1' design layer.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice on how to prevent this happening? Ideally the text would remain at the size it was when I created it (14/12pt) but it's definitely not - I can tell because I have other 12pt text boxes on the same design layer which I can read clearly at a zoom level of 40%

 

Screenshots show 2 symbols alternating. One of them shows the 'correct' size font. The other (with the balcony) shows apparently no text. Other screenshots show that the text actually IS still there but very small. Final screenshot shows the need to zoom into 24000%+ to read the text that should be much larger.

 

Thanks for any help!

[AndySmithArch]

P.S. Should have said - this is with VW2017 Architect edition. SP4. Build 373796

[AndySmithArch]

Any thoughts?

[PVA - Admin]

Moving thread to Troubleshooting.

Please post the file or the symbols you've made that have this behavior and I can take a look. Does the same issue happen if you don't convert to group before creating a symbol?

[Neil Barman]

Just to clarify @AndySmithArch, is your symbol in question actually a typical unit plan symbol that you are wanting to repeat within a multi-unit floor plan, and does your unit symbol contain walls objects as well?

 

From my experience, putting walls and space objects into symbols is not advisable. I have achieved a similar result by creating a layer for each unit type and then referencing each unit's layer into an overall floor plan.

 

@JimWWhat are your thoughts on doing unit plans as Symbols vs repeated, Referenced viewports? And might the text scaling be due to putting a Space object into a symbol, then onto a Design Layer, then into a viewport... Is that simply too much scaling "gymnastics" for text to do?

 

 

[PVA - Admin]

4 minutes ago, NeilB said:

@JimWWhat are your thoughts on doing unit plans as Symbols vs repeated, Referenced viewports? And might the text scaling be due to putting a Space object into a symbol, then onto a Design Layer, then into a viewport... Is that simply too much scaling "gymnastics" for text to do?

Most that I've spoken to lean towards using referenced design layer viewports rather than symbols, since symbols introduce a lot of issues related to scaling, wall connections, wall heights related to levels/layers, etc.

[rgcn]

@AndySmithArchI have seen this issue quite a few times, and every time I have suggested using design layer referencing.  It takes a little bit of mind shift to use this method, but in the long run it will save you a ton of headaches.

 

Rob

[AndySmithArch]

Thanks guys,

 

Neil, you have actually been helping me with this issue directly since I originally posted this thread. I'll do some research into the referencing approach but colleagues have advised me to stay clear of it if you're referring to the situation whereby you have multiple VW files which are referenced in a master file. If you're talking about a situation where you're only referencing assets on different layers within a single file, that sounds different.

 

However, although one of my applications was to use these symbols to create modular units to stack into a building, I should point out that:

1. All I was trying to do was to repeat a symbol multiple times - I had no intention of changing its scale or making unique changes to these symbols. I just wanted to create a self-contained living unit as a symbol and then replicate it 10 times in a floor plan. This would mean that if I wanted to move a window, I would do it once in the symbol and see it replicated throughout the building. I am not certain why this should be difficult for VW to achieve.

2. I also have this same text scaling issue on 2D symbols that have nothing to do with walls, space objects, etc. For example, I created a 2D symbol comprised of elevation markers and dimension markers. This 2D symbol would be dropped onto a number of viewports to show grade and floor elevations in sections and elevation drawings. If I want to change one of these elevation markers (say if we decide to lower the roof), I should be able to edit the 2D symbol, change one of the dimension markers and then drag the elevation marker to snap to it. However, when I do this, the black and white circle of the elevation marker immediately shrinks to a tiny size but the text remains the 'correct' size. So we're not actually talking about text scaling specifically but seemingly random scale hiccups of certain items when a symbol (or part of a symbol) is scaled or moved.

 

See this video for a demonstration. I would love to know why this is happening and how to prevent it - I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong.

 

Thanks!

 

 

SCALING_ISSUE.mp4

[Neil Barman]

Hi Andy,

 

I understand that your colleagues have advised you to stay clear of referencing in the situation you describe, however I have done this a number of times with success. In fact, for one office I worked with recently, I have actually taken an entire project that was (before i arrived) "broken" because it was made with unit plans as symbols (as you are trying to do) and I made the file work properly, as the office had wanted it to work, using referencing. (This particular example was done within one file, however the other example I mentioned in our previous, direct emails had 4 files involved - 1 individual file for each of the 3 unit plans and then one Master file that brought everything and the sloped site together. This was in the days prior to Project Sharing and the units were in separate files so that different people could work on them at the same time.)

 

Your colleagues may have had a negative experience at some point, but I would imagine that something may have been done incorrectly in the referencing process. When done correctly, which isn't difficult, referencing works very well for what you are wanting to do.

 

About #1 - I do understand what you were doing, however the objects that you were putting into the unit plan symbols do not like being in symbols. The referencing technique I explained works great. Using Symbols to do what you are trying to achieve will likely cause you issues.

 

About #2 - As I had requested via our tech support conversation, please do send me (or post here) the actual Vectorworks file you are using. I would like to investigate, but I can't actually examine the use of those objects adequately via the video alone. It appears to be something of a non-standard use of the tool, but having the Vectorworks file in hand will help tremendously.

 

Thanks,

-Neil