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TomMason

controversial, but: NO 3D AT ALL IN VECTORWORKS!

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This might be slightly controversial, but I'm suggesting that ALL 3D elements in Vectorworks are removed and it concentrates on being an extremely efficient drafting tool.

I've recently been using a lot of Revit, which at first was difficult coming from VW2008 standard but once immersed into this environment it is a hugely useful system. Now, I've recently dipped back into using VW2011 Architect (I'm an Architect based in the UK) From my memories of VW being a smooth, easy to use 2D drafting tool it has become something (IMHO) stepping well beyond it's current limitations. Confusing screen planes/layer planes, tools not working smoothly, graphics jumping all over the place etc etc

Now to turn this into something positive - what I think VW should be concentrating on is combining the GUI and clarity of tools of sketchup, the DTP abilities of InDesign and the Graphic attributes of Illustrator to form a super slick, easy to use, one stop shop for Designers and Architects. There would be a HUGE market for a piece of software like this instead of VW trying to chase a product niche (REVIT) that it is not suited for.

What do you think?

Cheers!

Tom

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As for the spork. yes I have used but decided it was not the proper tool so I moved on. and no that dose not mean my fingers (well)

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btw - I am a mac (or whatever irony allows me to take the piss out of MS' current add campaign) so I'm not sure what you're on about there :) I run Revit in Parallels - don't even have to look at the windows desktop, all good.

Drafting? without repeating myself I'll just say raster images :)

Progress and change (which I'm all for) don't necessarily have to be more complicated - both MS and OSx have been improving their operating systems and all we get is the same stuff with a greater sheen - word is still laggy in complex docs - but it looks all shiny etc etc

Bottom line is Revit does it better than VW - have a go! you can download a 30day trial for free, and so endeth the sermon from AutoDesk!

(seriously though - i couldn't give a what company makes what CAD programmes people/I use but whatever it is it should function better than the rest)

....what software do you use when you are entering competitions and need some super flash graphics/text/raster images?

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Bottom line is Revit does it better than VW - have a go! you can download a 30day trial for free, and so endeth the sermon from AutoDesk!

And you want to remove the 3D part of VW for more 2D? Then answer to this: Can Revit do proper 2D? Simple answer: NO! Revit forces you to build like BIM, and you don't like that. Then how can it be that you find it better? You certainly speak against yourself.

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Bottom line is Revit does it better than VW -

Does what better?

I've just started working for a company (Swedens largest = 350+ architects) that has decided to go over to Revit completely, so I've been forced to use it for 6 months now, and I can tell you it really rubs me the wrong way!

Partly because I have to start from scratch I admit, but mainly because everything is so terribly controlled/dictated = because it is completely based on parametric objects. And also we do a lot of teamwork = central file and that's a pain mainly too, very hard to understand what all the warnings are for, local file sync to central file worksets lost, corrupt central file, VPN connection lost no work done etc. etc.

Every chance I get I fire up my MBP and VWs........... :cool:

Thing is VWs has a very wide range of capabilities, this is its strength but also its Achilles heel.

Strength because it can be used from the first minute to the last in a project. (try that with any other app out there (perhaps with the exception of MicroStation))!.

Weakness because with limited resources NVW has a hard time to get all parts to work together harmoniously and to work as intended.

Read 99% of the posts/comments about VWs and you'll see that they all are related to one of these 2 points.

Now when you or anybody else suggests they remove part of this width of-course most of us react strongly because we don't want to end up with a VWs that is like ArchiCAD/Revit/ScketchUp etc. because we need the width of VWs.

BTW I've already conceded that changing VW is (after all the sentiment in this thread) a non-starter - I still underline that there is a gap in the market for the software I've described...

I think I may have stepped into a technicians forum and not an architectural one :)

It has very very little to do with sentimentality.......VWs is changing/developing constantly........not always to the liking of some (like you?) but generally liked by most. = my impression.

Edited by Vincent C

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I still underline that there is a gap in the market for the software I've described...

Nope VWs will whop its ass, because it already does most of what you are asking for plus the more that is irritating you.........and it is fairly cheap! So why buy the other? If they just get bugginess under control even larger firms will start moving to VWs, perhaps not as a main drafting tool but certainly as a very fine complement to other apps.

Edited by Vincent C

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Otherwise we could all loose the CAD and just use cocktail napkins.

Ooooh, no. But with Cocktail Sticks and some glue, definitely Yes!

But then all i want is a 3D Tool that REALLY Does work. With or without the PIOs. . . . . . . :)

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Tom,

We use Vectorworks for 3d modeling our entire Architectural Projects then using these models to create Plans(Overall and detailed), Building Elevations, Building Sections, Interior Elevations, and as generators of Backgrounds for Wall Sections. At the point of anything greater than 1/4" scale we shift to the 2d functions to create the detail. We have been doing this since Vectorworks 11, attached is a small example.

Revit and ArchiCAD are good at what they do but feel ArchiCAD is better than Revit as it handles larger teams better with speed and server based solutions implemented best of class for Architects. As our practice has a heavy graphics bent is the reason we use Vectorworks since it gives us this capability.

We use Vectorworks for light Illustrations and Page Layout but the dedicated applications for this will always work better as they are singularly focused. Pages is an intermediate step but it also bogs down with to many large images.

At the moment none of the BIM and CAD tools perform as an Architect needs though, they are all to cumbersome and take away from efforts at design. SU for its use is the only exception in that an Architect can start using and creating almost instantly. But its use downstream in a project is suspect especially for getting Architecture built (I would guess that is what most of want to accomplish).

The bifurcation of modeling and drafting is a 18th century approach which the MCAD world has left behind with the advent of the Computer and Computer Applications as tools. We Architects on the other hand are slow to change and are still caught up in this discussion with this bifurcation of efforts.

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