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Katie or any VW gurus!

I remembered way back in VW 10, there was a way to set it so that doors and windows when inserted, are in a designated class or class 'none', and not have their automatic classes "Sill", "Ceiling main" appear.

How can I do this in VW 12.5?

Thanks for your help!!

Mac Os X 10.4.10

VW 12.5.2

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And you think you have a problem? How about the rest (95%) of the world where these designated classes are not only unwanted but make VW non-usable? Coming to think of it, the way NNA's objects work makes the program non-usable for Government and large-client work in the USA as well.

Unless there is a way to change the designated classes.

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This Classing issue reminds of the longitude navigation problems prior to accurate seaworthy clocks.

Sailing along the latitude was easy .. like Programmers&Users adding classes for objects they create during the journey.

Define an object and assign a Class .. bingo ...problem solved ...

but fixing the location of those objects in the Macro Cad ocean requires agreement by others as to the longitude ...

hence the need for a Universal Class similar to Time based on a Prime Meridian starting point which every navigator/programmer can address with equal results.

What we now have is gadzillions of Classes littering the ocean as far as the eye can see ... with no ability whatsoever to fix their locations in the big CAD picture.

What is required is a way to determine the longitude ... using a Universal Class Standard beginning at an agreed Prime Programmers Meridian.

We shall call this new Universal Class Standard the Prime Petri and it shall be located in Finland ...

everything created to the west shall be referred to as " adding whiskey " ...

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The proposed Classification of Object Components:

Those that belong to the Emperor

Embalmed ones

Those that are trained

Suckling pigs

Mermaids

Fabulous ones

Stray dogs

Those that are included in this classification

Those that tremble as if they were mad

Innumerable ones

Those drawn with a very fine camel?s hair brush

Others

Those that have just broken a flower vase

Those that resemble flies from a distance

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Petri, I'd like to see what you think the classification (aka Class) system should be. You have an incisive view of how the classification system should work with a detailed knowledge and understanding of IFC that the rest of us don't have. Your insights could benefit us all. Perhaps start by giving us your classes for a window object.

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I don't have a classification system in mind. In Finland we pretty much must use the SFS-standard "CAD layering", a totally horrible AutoCAD-compatible system that requires hundreds of classes.

So, in my objects I leave the look (colour etc) entirely to the user while the component classes are, by default, as per the standard. Yes, this is doable: some of us can have "muntins" (whatever they are) in the muntins-class, but coloured by another class.

Instead of the totalitarian pop-ups (which are based on the silly assumption that each window would have different materials, including glazing), I have text fields. My users can type a few words. If not, there are utility commands, but most Finnish architects are literate.

However, as comes to product modeling (eg IFC), the entire window is just in one class, which would be ARF3200E0 for "non-specified" (including composite construction), ARF3210E0 for metal windows and ARF3220E0 for timber windows. In this regard, everything else is superfluous.

EDIT

So, I don't have a "muntin class". We do not have muntins (whatever they are) in Finland, but even if we did, why would I want to have a muntin class?

Edited by Petri

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Sounds like you are saying your criticism of the Class system used by NNA is based on it not working the way you would like it to, rather than it being wrong as such. Having Classes for each component provides the capability to deal with exceptions - surely that is good.

PS: I've been told using 'Text Fields' in PIOs is risky. Maybe that is the reason you are having so many problems with your PIOs.

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We do not have muntins (whatever they are) in Finland, but even if we did, why would I want to have a muntin class?

As a member in good standing with the International Order of Muntin Workers,

i take exception to your exception.

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Sounds like you are saying your criticism of the Class system used by NNA is based on it not working the way you would like it to, rather than it being wrong as such.

Well, hands up. Those who think that it works great and that there is nothing wrong with having classes you can't control and that do not export to an expected standard?

OK. Those who think that the user should be in control?

I think the "user control" has the majority.

Having Classes for each component provides the capability to deal with exceptions - surely that is good.

Sure - but they should not be called "Style-1" and so on.

PS: I've been told using 'Text Fields' in PIOs is risky. Maybe that is the reason you are having so many problems with your PIOs.

Utter nonsense.

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Petri, I don't disagree with you on the Style-1, Style-2, etc. protocol. It is an abomination that should have been given the flick a long time ago. With every version I hope it will be gone, and with every version it persists.

Each time I go through a ritual of bashing my head against the wall, muttering to myself "Surely they can't be that ******* stupid can they?", and add another post pleading for it to be consigned to history. Then I just get on with it because for another 18+ months I know it is going to be that way and there is sweet FA I can do about it.

Of all the frustrations with VW this one has to be the most absurd. It is incredibly user unfriendly and unintuitive. As a user I find it hard to remember which Style-x has been used for what. Anybody else opening up one of my drawings has absolutely no chance of knowing what any Style-x has been used for.

I would really like someone from NNA to respond to just one of the many complaints that have been made about this over the years and either explain why it hasn't been fixed, or better still give a commitment that it will be fixed in the next update, service pack or whatever. Will that happen - very unlikely.

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It seems that the good programmers at NNA have been too busy implementing half-Gothic (what an apt expression!) windows with Prairie-style muntins and various types of shutters etc. to worry about the usability of the object.

The pop-up lists need a totally new approach.

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Its not as if it would be hard to do. All it requires is permanently replacing the Style-1, Style-2, etc Class Names in the parameter list pop-up with Class Names that are meaningful.

With some time and effort you can do this yourself. The problem is every time there is an update you will have to redo it.

For the life of me I cannot understand why NNA don't put in the small amount of effort necessary to get rid of this festering sore of user unfriendliness.

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There are no class names that would be meaningful in every country, language and architectural practice.

Editing the lists should be made easier!

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I do understand your angst Petri. There must be an awful lot of text that has to be changed to have local language versions. It must be a hell of a chore.

Those of us in English and Spanish speaking countries though deserve better.

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Multiply my angst by the number of countries where VW is supposed to be used. We have a critical mass. (Whatever THAT means... Am I the High Priest of Criticism, performing a Mass? Maybe I am!)

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There are no class names that would be meaningful in every country, language and architectural practice. Editing the lists should be made easier!

A better option would be to provide the capability to select or create a Class from within a PIO script. You can do it from a Menu script but not a PIO script.

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Actually one presumably can invoke a dialog from a PIO.

Not that I would know how to use the undocumented "for NNA use only" functions & procedures that provide "widgets" and "gadgets" to Object Info: the Great Helmsman can be the Recognized World Leader only by suppressing information.

EDIT

Now, let me see. A company lead by a certain Mr. Gates has been fined by a few hundred million euros for not allowing competition and suppressing information...

Edited by Petri

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Not that I would know how to use the undocumented "for NNA use only" functions & procedures that provide "widgets" and "gadgets" to Object Info: the Great Helmsman can be the Recognized World Leader only by suppressing information.

It is documented: Chapter 9 of the 2008 Vectorscript Manual. Custom Dialog Boxes.

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Petri, it is easy to criticise and throw stones.

- If it is so easy how about telling us what the solutions are.

- If your PIOs are so good make them available so users can decide for themselves (I've never been able to find a mention of them in the English language sections of the Ultirender website).

If VW is so bad why don't you switch to the Finnish CAD program Vertex BD. It seems to do most of what you want and because its Finnish there would be no terminology or language conversion issues. Given the local and EU imperatives you mention so often I am assuming that its parametric capabilities are suited to your local needs, and that it is IFC compliant (and before you ask - I haven't checked).

Nobody forces you to use VectorWorks. if it is such an inadequate program for your needs switch to something else. Give us all a break.

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Mike,

It is equally easy to demand that an independent developer donates his intellectual property to NNA.

Now, most of my PIOs are not useful outside Finland, so making them available elsewhere would be pointless.

As comes to inadequacy, in addition to the shortcomings I encounter, I am talking with several Finnish architects and have witnessed their problems.

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It is documented: Chapter 9 of the 2008 Vectorscript Manual. Custom Dialog Boxes.

A dialog is not the same thing as Object Info.

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Mike,

It is documented: Chapter 9 of the 2008 Vectorscript Manual. Custom Dialog Boxes.

You are looking in the wrong place. Charles Chandler wrote a beautiful piece on VCOR (VectorScript Wiki) About how to open dialogs and do other things from within PIO's.

Glance through the explanations, then quickly grab the examples. Put your whole PIO code in a separate procedure and you're off. (page opens slowly, give it up to 15 seconds):

http://www.vectorlab.info/index.php?title=Events

Gerard

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Yes, Charles did that... I just had another go on the subject of buttons in OI and am now making progress. No thanks to NNA's documentation, altough these is some in the on-line version.

Anyway, even in this "better" VS-documentation there are plenty functions that are undocumented and marked "For NNA use only" like:

vstAddButtonMode Tool Events (1100~)

Declaration:

PROCEDURE vstAddButtonMode(inIconID :INTEGER);

Description:

For NNA use only.

Used in the initialization of an event-enabled tool, add a mode bar button.

I know I'm paranoid, but to me this sounds like an attempt to maintain competive edge over independent developers - a measure needed because the NNA engineers can't compete on a level playing field.

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