Archicad dwg files to a referenced VW site model

[Minna]

Hi!  How do you import Archicad dwg files to a referenced VW site model.  My site model is in correct place in a world map but all Archicad files are bound to an internal origin so that the 0,0 point is given separate coordinates (by architect - it is in dwg file)  Same with IFC files.   

 

Its really difficult to try to get them to the right place by dragging and it is impossible to use them as reference pictures.  Some how i have  this problem is specific to ArchiCad files. Is it just a drawing style, i.e. can I instruct the architect to create a different file that would go to the right place on the map? Has anyone else had a similar problem and how have you gotten such files to work as reference files?  I'm a fairly new user so I don't know how to solve this problem and I couldn't find a similar article anywhere.

[Katarina Ollikainen]

@Tamsin Slatter, do you have any input on this? I know you did some research on Archicad.

[Poot]

You need to have a coordinated origin point for the project (e.g. where does the architects 0,0 correspond to in real world coordinates?) You would use this origin point to create your user origin in VW. Then, when you import a file using NOT in world coordinates(aka architects drawings) you can set it to use the origin when importing rather then the internal origin.

 

If you don't have one set up for the project, you have to sort that out, agree on a reference point in a survey or cadastral, etc. This is best practice for every project, right from the beginning, and makes coordination with DWG or IFC easy regardless of what programs are being used. You should never move things manually, as it's making you liable for errors.

 

As a side note, you should always try to have a user origin for your projects that is within 5km to avoid issues with 3D rendering. The closer it is to your site, the better, for these reasons. It can be something like the corner of a nearby building, or a coordinate number that is simple (e.g. Without many trailing decimal points that come with random locations)

 

 

[Minna]

Thanks for your replies! 

 

I actually have the coordinate point.  The architect has defined the x,y,z coordinate point.  I'm trying to figure out if I can somehow import it into the georeferenced VW plan base.  Poot: did I understand correctly that in your instructions the VW base is not georeferenced at all?   I didn't quite understand how to do that...I wonder if there is a tutorial video for this? 

 

The problem seems to be only in these ArchiCAD files.  The other designers files are geographically correct so I would then have to manually transfer the other designers plans (electrical, transport etc)  And indeed importing ArchiCAD files as reference files is impossible 

 

And yes...I do have my user origin next to my site 🙂

 

Edited February 4 by Minna

[TeeMuki]

Hi,
i'm not sure how you did set up your file Georeferencing. But here are few tips.
If you get the project coordinate point from the architects, you set them in the Georeferencing tab in the Northing / Easting points. You have to also set up the EPSG correctly, in Finland i'm mostly using GK25FIN (EPSG 3879) or GK24FIN (EPSG 3878), but that is what you have to ask from the architects. Then you add the possible rotation there also, but that you will also get from the architects if they have used some rotation.

After this your Georeferencing is set to the same point as Architects. If you double click the left upper corner from the rulers (picture below), you get the origin preferences.

If you add some references from the city, you use the "Georeferenced option" and the rulers will show your coordinates in "world".
If you add some references from the architects, you use the "Set user origin to internal origin" then your rulers show your coordinates located in 0,0 -point the same way as the architects project coordinate.

Hopefully this helps!

[Minna]

Hi TeeMuki!  You are from Finland?!  Can I send you a message in finnish?  

_Minna

[Poot]

3 hours ago, Minna said:

Thanks for your replies! 

 

I actually have the coordinate point.  The architect has defined the x,y,z coordinate point.  I'm trying to figure out if I can somehow import it into the georeferenced VW plan base.  Poot: did I understand correctly that in your instructions the VW base is not georeferenced at all?   I didn't quite understand how to do that...I wonder if there is a tutorial video for this? 

 

The problem seems to be only in these ArchiCAD files.  The other designers files are geographically correct so I would then have to manually transfer the other designers plans (electrical, transport etc)  And indeed importing ArchiCAD files as reference files is impossible 

 

And yes...I do have my user origin next to my site 🙂

 

 

Three questions:  

1. Have you set your drawing georeferencing to use a coordinate system like @TeeMuki is using? (File->Document Settings ->Georeferencing)
2. Have you set your user origin to match the Architects 0,0?
3. Is your drawing/file set to use the User Origin or Internal Origin  right now? It sounds like you are working with the Internal Origin.

Drawings from electrical, roads, engineers, landscape architectst are almost always in world coordinates , whereas architects drawings are almost always using 0,0. 

 

If you haven't set your user origin to match the architects, you should probably do so. *unless there is another "project origin" agreed with other disciplines. then the architect needs to use that too.

 

Once you have defined your user origin to match the architects 0,0  see below.

 

CHANGE DRAWING to use USER ORIGIN (self-defined) should be small values on the X/Y rulers

To import Architect DWG set in custom/project 0,0 that is the same as your drawings USER ORIGIN

 

 

 

CHANGE DRAWING TO WORLD COORDINATES (aka using INTERNAL ORIGIN) typically large values on the X/Y rulers. compare coordinates between above/below

Edited February 4 by Poot

[TeeMuki]

3 hours ago, Minna said:

Hi TeeMuki!  You are from Finland?!  Can I send you a message in finnish?  

_Minna

Yes i am 🙂 Send me a message, if you still need some help!

[Tamsin Slatter]

Hello!
Sorry to be late to the party. 

 

Archicad files have two origin points.

The first is the "Project Origin". It looks like a small black x in the file. This can have real world coordinates overlaid, just as we can do in Vectorworks (as described above).

Archicad also has a "Survey Point" object which can be positioned anywhere else in the file. It will have coordinates that are relative to the project origin. 

When Archicad users export their files to DWG or IFC, they can choose whether to export based on either the Project Origin or the Survey Point.

So, yes, you can ask the architects how they have produced the DWG - which of this settings did they use and what are the coordinates on the chosen point?
That will help you set up the Vectorworks file with the appropriate coordinates and import the DWG in the correct place.

 

I hope that helps!

[Tamsin Slatter]

You might find this tutorial useful for understanding how to georeference files.
https://university.vectorworks.net/course/view.php?id=274

[aage.langedrag]

Hi, Not sure if this has been mentioned earlier in this case. ALWAYS open dwg from ArchiCAD in Civil3D/AutoCAD before importing in other programs. In the Nordic countries we use metric units. Architects in millimeters and Landscape architects in metres. Check the unit of the drawing on known dimensions. Most often you see by measuring that the file from Architects delivered from ArchiCAD is then in millimeters. Then comes the fun part. Check "Units", even if the file is drawn in millimeters, the dwg from ArchiCAD ALWAYS comes with "Units=feet". You must change this to millimeters without changing the geometry. Save the file and import this file into Vectorworks.

[aage.langedrag]

Here is a copy from a discussion on Beta which should also be available to everyone. The case does not contain content affecting Beta.
 

«…..The best thing is to be able to go back to whoever sent the file that is wrong about sending a new file that uses the project's common internal datum. We had this problem before, but in the last 10 years, all projects I have contributed to have more or less got this in place. BIM coordinator in the project ensures that the project has a common internal coordinate point BEFORE the technical engineers start working. In a construction project, it is often the Architect who is responsible for determining an internal coordinate point for the project that is located so that ALL disciplines who contribute to this project must have their objects placed with positive coordinates. The shared internal zero point is then often at the bottom left of the project's boundary. This also becomes our internal zero point in Vectorworks so that IFC files from us and other disciplines match before starting the project. I know that those who use Solideworks also struggle with z-axis orientation, but I have been involved in this in the past. A few weeks ago at the latest and they manage to solve this as well if we make demands. I had to search Google myself to find a solution for them, but the solutions are there. You probably know this, but just want to clarify if others are reading this how important it is that we who use Vectorworks look at the Vectorworks local zero point together with the project's local zero point when we work with IFC. There, Vectorworks has not been clear in its presentations as far as I have been able to see.

 

Therefore, we should look more at buildingSMART's description of the local zero point. Sorry, the document is in Norwegian, but use a translator and you will understand what this is all about. Thought I'd also seen an international document in English but can't find it now…..»

 

bsnp_georeferering_20100415_EN(Google translate).docx

Edited February 5 by aage.langedrag

[Minna]

Problem solved!  Thanks to everyone who helped and special thanks to Tamsini for the video - it was a very clarifying package!  The big issue with this was that the architect had sent me material made in the correct coordinate system and material where the coordinate system was wrong.  So I didn't believe in my own knowledge and wasted my time before I realised what the problem was.  Maybe this is a relatively new user problem... 😄

 

An interesting detail in the material I received was that the base material sent by the city also worked strangely when imported into Vectorworks.  When it was brought to a base where there was no architect specified rotation angle everything went fine on top of each other.  But, when you used the rotation angle then one of the files moved maybe about 3 meters to a different spot.  Can you tell me what could be the cause of this? 

 

-Minna