Wall Closures - VW2024 Workflow, and transitioning files from VW2023

E|FA · January 27

I'm about to start setting up my first Wall Styles with the updated Wall Closure system in 2024. I would prefer to transfer styled 2023 walls, windows, and doors and update them. Does anyone (@Matt Panzer?) have any workflow advice other than watching the related VWU videos?

Also, what would the recommended workflow be for a project that was started in VW 2023?

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/overview/view.php?id=5790

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/overview/view.php?id=5773

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/overview/view.php?id=6316

https://university.vectorworks.net/mod/overview/view.php?id=5656

Matt Panzer · January 29

My only suggestion is to open a VW 2023 project in VW 2024 and update the wall, door, and window styles as needed to get the desired results. After doing that, you should have a good idea how to go about updating your libraries of styles. It's harder to go into more detail than that because it all depends on your specific needs.

E|FA · January 30

If ALL of my doors & windows have closure styles attached, will I run into any trouble if I don't add default closures to the walls (meaning, don't edit my 2023 Wall Styles)?

Matt Panzer · January 30

13 hours ago, E|FA said:

If ALL of my doors & windows have closure styles attached, will I run into any trouble if I don't add default closures to the walls (meaning, don't edit my 2023 Wall Styles)?

Walls must contain at least one wall closure. By default, that closure will have no profile or wrapping settings. If a wall style only has the one wall closure setup, it will be the default for the wall style. If a door or window has the "Use wall closure" option selected (in the PIO Options) and it's a wall with just one closure defined, it use use that closure because ut will be the only one available. If the closure has the default settings (no wrapping, etc.) then that's what the door or window will use.

E|FA · January 31

I have been building new walls, windows, and doors to get a clean start with Closures. While I seem to be making progress, I find the interface extremely confusing. Too many controls with same/similar names that you get to in different ways, and no clear indication of which control is governing. I know this has already been covered in the forum. I got it working (not sure how) on one wall & window combination, and have been duplicating and modifying to make new ones. Despite 2 days working on this, I still don't really understand what I'm doing. I'll take some of the blame, but VW is also responsible. That said... I'm getting things to work mostly as I'd like with a few issues:

1. I can not get the sill component to wrap at windows. (see attached image & file). Wrapping is as expected at the head & jambs. I don't think the setting for the bottom closure is unchecked anywhere. What am I missing?

2. The "Plug-in Object Options..." Insert settings for each Door & Window appear to reset whena change is made to a Wall's closure settings. User error?

3. Is each "Named Closure" a distinct item, regardless of which Insert & Wall it is being used on, OR is the same name used for different closure settings for each Wall? I'm asking because when I add a new Closure to a Wall by selecting a closure name I already created in another Wall, the settings do not carry over. User error? Bug? Working as designed?

4. Why is everything labeled "Wall Closure Name"? Aren't we choosing a specific "Closure"? The UI doesn't ask for "Design Layer Name", "Class Name", "Symbol Name". Maybe this is related to item 3 above.

Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

VW Closures DRAFT 30Jan2024.vwx

Edited January 31 by E|FA

Matt Panzer · January 31

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

I have been building new walls, windows, and doors to get a clean start with Closures. While I seem to be making progress, I find the interface extremely confusing. Too many controls with same/similar names that you get to in different ways, and no clear indication of which control is governing. I know this has already been covered in the forum. I got it working (not sure how) on one wall & window combination, and have been duplicating and modifying to make new ones. Despite 2 days working on this, I still don't really understand what I'm doing. I'll take some of the blame, but VW is also responsible. That said... I'm getting things to work mostly as I'd like with a few issues:

I agree the UI is complex. Wall closure have a lot of flexibility which results in a lot of complexity in the UI. That said, I do want to look into improving the UI to make things more intuitive.

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

1. I can not get the sill component to wrap at windows. (see attached image & file). Wrapping is as expected at the head & jambs. I don't think the setting for the bottom closure is unchecked anywhere. What am I missing?

The Bottom closure in the wrapping tab had no wrapping. I set it to use the settings from the left edge to correct it in the file.

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

2. The "Plug-in Object Options..." Insert settings for each Door & Window appear to reset whena change is made to a Wall's closure settings. User error?

This is an annoying design issue with the feature we'd like to address. Technically, it's working as designed, but we need to change the design.

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

3. Is each "Named Closure" a distinct item, regardless of which Insert & Wall it is being used on, OR is the same name used for different closure settings for each Wall? I'm asking because when I add a new Closure to a Wall by selecting a closure name I already created in another Wall, the settings do not carry over. User error? Bug? Working as designed?

This is working as designed. The component structure can vary from one wall to another and the closure settings can vary as well. The idea is that each wall can have a closure with the same name so a door/window style can choose the same closure name and have a closure appropriate for the wall it's inserted in.

1 hour ago, E|FA said:

4. Why is everything labeled "Wall Closure Name"? Aren't we choosing a specific "Closure"? The UI doesn't ask for "Design Layer Name", "Class Name", "Symbol Name". Maybe this is related to item 3 above.

We want to make as clear as possible that you specifying the name of a closure to use (when it's available) and not the settings of a specific closure. So, yes, this is related to #3. Different walls can use the same closure name with different closure settings that make sense for its component structure.

I agree that there are a lot of settings but one you have things set up the way you need, everything should just work without you worrying about it.

E|FA · January 31

33 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

The Bottom closure in the wrapping tab had no wrapping. I set it to use the settings from the left edge to correct it in the file.

I wouldn't have found that in a million years and it felt like that's how long I was looking. Thank you! I had checked the Profile Offsets and the Plug-in Option Settings multiple times to make sure the bottom was active. Is the Bottom off by default, or did I set it somewhere along the way without noticing?

35 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

This is working as designed. The component structure can vary from one wall to another and the closure settings can vary as well. The idea is that each wall can have a closure with the same name so a door/window style can choose the same closure name and have a closure appropriate for the wall it's inserted in.

This seems counter to everything else I can think of in VW, where names refer to ONLY one thing. Imagine a Class that behaves differently if it is applied to a Wall Component vs an Extrude. I read through the help files several times and rewatched the four VWU classes, but never grasped that concept. So what I'm seeing is that if I have variations of a wall type (e.g 2x6 interior wall with plywood sheathing added for a SW, 2x6 interior wall with insulation, 2x6 interior wall without GWB on one face), I have to rebuild almost identical closures for each wall, and redo the settings for each door or window inserted into the wall. Is this the correct process, or is there an easier way to do it?

Feature Request: when you select an existing Closure Name for a new Wall, import the settings for components that carry over, and flag (red?) items that need to be adjusted because they don't exist in the new wall.

I see how powerful & flexible the system is, and once I have things set up, I expect it will save time & offer better workflows as a payoff. I really hope you can revamp the process. Also, a step-by-step tutorial would be greatly appreciated. I've been taking notes and will try to post it if I have the time & energy to make it understandable for others to use.

Matt Panzer · January 31

3 minutes ago, E|FA said:

54 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

The Bottom closure in the wrapping tab had no wrapping. I set it to use the settings from the left edge to correct it in the file.

I wouldn't have found that in a million years and it felt like that's how long I was looking. Thank you! I had checked the Profile Offsets and the Plug-in Option Settings multiple times to make sure the bottom was active. Is the Bottom off by default, or did I set it somewhere along the way without noticing?

By default, the Bottom is not set to use the setting from the "Left" edge.

There are good arguments for having the default this way or having it set to use the "Left" so I'll leave it at that. 😉

3 minutes ago, E|FA said:

54 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

This is working as designed. The component structure can vary from one wall to another and the closure settings can vary as well. The idea is that each wall can have a closure with the same name so a door/window style can choose the same closure name and have a closure appropriate for the wall it's inserted in.

This seems counter to everything else I can think of in VW, where names refer to ONLY one thing. Imagine a Class that behaves differently if it is applied to a Wall Component vs an Extrude. I read through the help files several times and rewatched the four VWU classes, but never grasped that concept. So what I'm seeing is that if I have variations of a wall type (e.g 2x6 interior wall with plywood sheathing added for a SW, 2x6 interior wall with insulation, 2x6 interior wall without GWB on one face), I have to rebuild almost identical closures for each wall, and redo the settings for each door or window inserted into the wall. Is this the correct process, or is there an easier way to do it?

Feature Request: when you select an existing Closure Name for a new Wall, import the settings for components that carry over, and flag (red?) items that need to be adjusted because they don't exist in the new wall.

We do want to look into adding a way to import settings from one closure to another. But Vectorworks will have to make its best guess when the component structure is different between the wall you're importing from and the one you're importing to. You may want to add a post in the "wishlist" forum so it gets more attention and others can upvote it.

3 minutes ago, E|FA said:

I see how powerful & flexible the system is, and once I have things set up, I expect it will save time & offer better workflows as a payoff. I really hope you can revamp the process. Also, a step-by-step tutorial would be greatly appreciated. I've been taking notes and will try to post it if I have the time & energy to make it understandable for others to use.

👍

Tom W. · January 31

23 minutes ago, Matt Panzer said:

By default, the Bottom is not set to use the setting from the "Left" edge.

There are good arguments for having the default this way or having it set to use the "Left" so I'll leave it at that. 😉

This has caught me out before as well. But only because 9 times out of 10 I don't want the wrapping to apply to the bottom: on the rare occasions I have wanted to apply them here I've enabled 'Bottom' in the PIO object settings then wondered why it hasn't stuck. I think it probably should be like this, I just need to remember that the 'Exclude Wall Closure From' settings in the PIO Object/Symbol Options are really just a means of overriding the Wall Closure settings for the Wall/Insert + as such are secondary: they can be left disabled for the most part + only used when you want to positively disable a wall closure setting for a particular object...I think...?

line-weight · January 31

4 hours ago, E|FA said:

I've been taking notes and will try to post it if I have the time & energy to make it understandable for others to use.

Yes please, if you manage it!

I had to write myself fairly extensive instructions to understand & use wall closures in VW2023 and am slightly dreading the transition to VW2024.

Some notes from another "real" user would likely be very helpful. In particular if they highlight all the points where something in the UI is unclear or inconsistent or misleading, because you can never get that from the official documentation.

E|FA · January 31

11 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

There are good arguments for having the default this way

Understood and @Tom W. confirms. My work is usually the opposite for windows: 9 out of 10 the sill matches the jambs, but I realize I'm in the minority. Easy to deal with now that I know it's a default and where to deal with it.

11 hours ago, Matt Panzer said:

We do want to look into adding a way to import settings from one closure to another. But Vectorworks will have to make its best guess when the component structure is different between the wall you're importing from and the one you're importing to. You may want to add a post in the "wishlist" forum so it gets more attention and others can upvote it.

I'll add a Wishlist item. I would prefer VW making a best guess and flagging what happened over the current system. Similarly, it would be nice for the "bottom" default to import as well (item above).

7 hours ago, line-weight said:

Yes please, if you manage it!

I had to write myself fairly extensive instructions to understand & use wall closures in VW2023 and am slightly dreading the transition to VW2024.

I'll try. Gotta catch up on "real" work for now.

Matt Panzer · February 1

12 hours ago, E|FA said:

On 1/31/2024 at 12:56 PM, Matt Panzer said:

We do want to look into adding a way to import settings from one closure to another. But Vectorworks will have to make its best guess when the component structure is different between the wall you're importing from and the one you're importing to. You may want to add a post in the "wishlist" forum so it gets more attention and others can upvote it.

I'll add a Wishlist item. I would prefer VW making a best guess and flagging what happened over the current system. Similarly, it would be nice for the "bottom" default to import as well (item above).

👍

Absolutely. It should bring over all settings possible.

PeterO · February 6

On 1/31/2024 at 12:24 PM, E|FA said:

Understood and @Tom W. confirms. My work is usually the opposite for windows: 9 out of 10 the sill matches the jambs, but I realize I'm in the minority. Easy to deal with now that I know it's a default and where to deal with it.

I'll add a Wishlist item. I would prefer VW making a best guess and flagging what happened over the current system. Similarly, it would be nice for the "bottom" default to import as well (item above).

I'll try. Gotta catch up on "real" work for now.

I've been at this for a day now and still haven't made much progress trying to get the material to wrap around the corners. Changing the corner profiles is straight forward but after watching the tutorials and going through the forum I'm still frustrated. We definitely need a clearer video or tutorial from VW. Thank you in advance if you find the time to put something together.

Shortnort · February 7

On 1/31/2024 at 4:48 AM, line-weight said:

Yes please, if you manage it!

I had to write myself fairly extensive instructions to understand & use wall closures in VW2023 and am slightly dreading the transition to VW2024.

Some notes from another "real" user would likely be very helpful. In particular if they highlight all the points where something in the UI is unclear or inconsistent or misleading, because you can never get that from the official documentation.

I could never figure it out in 2023 and can't figure it out in 2024. I have spent too much time already trying to get this to work. I downloaded the sample files, but still didn't make sense to me. More than likely it is very simple, but I am old with limited brain power and need visuals to assist me.

E|FA · February 7

2 hours ago, Shortnort said:

More than likely it is very simple

It is not. I am old with limited brain power as well, but eventually got it working. It would take me just as long to do it a second time, other than the notes I scratched out. I will try to put together a cleaned up guide after I get through some project deadlines.

line-weight · February 7

It took me the best part of a day to initially get my head around it in VW2023.

Certainly made my brain feel old and limited too. However...once I finally got it working on a real project file, it was rather satisfying (those horrible window reveals showing all the wall layers exposed, that we've had to live with in VW for years, finally gone).

I found this thread rather useful to read, while I was trying to understand things. It seems like many people come up against the same issues when making their first steps:

E|FA · February 8

I would be somewhat careful looking at pre 2024 info, because of the addition of Closure Names.

Wall Closures - VW2024 Workflow, and transitioning files from VW2023

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Join the conversation