ETC S4 Lustre series 3 symbols are not the right size or shape

[DCLD]

I know this has been mentioned before on the forums.... Could the ETC S4 Lustre series 3 symbols be drawn to show correct size and shape (721mm). You are currently using incandescent S4 symbols which are smaller (579mm). 

 

Thanks.

[MrTemplate]

Hi DCLD: I cannot speak for the Nemetschek Lustr series 3 symbols, but after reviewing my notes, i can make a couple of observations:

 

1) years ago when i started making SoftSymbols, I decided to create both 2D and 3D components that reflected the true overall size of each lighting fixture. that said, i also decided to make each symbol with the lens barrel retracted to as *small* an overall length as possible. my thought was: "drawing a symbol as frontlight, even if the barrel is all the way out, it will still be on a sectional diagonal, and the front of the lens will not stick out much further than as drawn. drawing a symbol as sidelight, even if the barrel is all the way out, it will still be on a 3D front view diagonal; same thing. if you draw the 2D with barrel extended, you run the risk of reducing the amount of available room to fit in all the light devices without overlapping between symbols and potentially obscuring information either the lens or in the butt of the unit." in my ETC S3-LED Lustr symbols [for example,] the 2D and 3D components are drawn with the barrel "retracted."

 

2) The overall length of each fixture in the Lustr S3 series varies by beam spread. while i try to make all the symbols accurate size, there's also the question of being able to recognize similar unit type, and sometimes that unit type is overall length. in fact, the only two fixtures that are matching overall sizes to one another is the 26° and the 36°, and the 50° and the 70°. worst case, i also include a second set of symbols that contain a beam spread number in the nose [instead of a slash or line] to help identify the beam spread.

 

3) There are a jillion symbols for a lot of lighting manufacturers. If there's a symbol that you *must* have, please remember that the amount of hands available for this kind of request is very finite. rather than wait for someone to update the symbols of your choice it'll be quicker to edit and alter the symbol's size to your satisfaction on your own. just my $.02.

 

Good luck!

 

[JustinVH]

This issue has been noted and we do have the issue in our internal tracking system for investigation. However, I cannot offer a timeframe for when a resolution will be released in the software.

[DCLD]

Thanks for your reply Steve, agreed on all your points. I have purchased many of your packs over time. However as my VSS price has been increased by over 50% this year, I did think Vectorworks could pull it out and provide some accurate fixtures. The only reply from VW so far is to hurry up and wait...

 

'I cannot offer a timeframe for when a resolution will be released in the software.'

 

Perhaps I will start a list of all the unsatisfactory issues that need to be resolved. As I am now paying a larger amount of money for this service I expect there to be accurate symbols, plugs ins that don't crash freeze like the instrument summary. Which when originally designed by Josh Benghiat worked perfectly, since VW took over its gone down hill to a sluggish pile of....  Of course they say a change is coming in 2024, needless to say the issues have been present for at least 3 years. Thats a long time to wait for a software fix, obviously it tells us where we sit in priorities. 

 

So will the Lustre 3 be fixed any time in the next 3 years? The fixture was released by ETC in March 2021. We are getting very close to the 3 year window.

 

I'm curious to see how many other LD's feel this way.

[MrTemplate]

4 hours ago, DCLD said:

Perhaps I will start a list of all the unsatisfactory issues that need to be resolved.

I certainly feel your frustration, but regardless of your emotional state, YES! Don't merely start a list of the unsatisfactory issues, submit them! every one of them! and make each issue separate, so that it can acquire it's own votes or responses. As applications develop and get larger and acquire more tools, there are potentially more trap doors. and like every project overseen by management that doesn't really know how the product is used, or has the intuitive understanding of an end user, the *only* way that an issue gains traction is to be listed in this forum AND in Jira, get responses or reinforcement, and then gains enough support to get fixed.

[JustinVH]

I am going to chime in here and explain why there is not a timeframe on this issue. Currently, there are nearly 400 individual issues in our tracking system that relate to Spotlight content. These range from individual lighting fixture requests all the way to full catalogs from new truss/rigging and lighting companies containing 100's of individual SKUs. These SKUs must all be modeled with accurate data records attached and then checked and released in the Premium Library updates. In addition to developing new content the team is also responsible for helping with new features, creating documents with tech support and pubs, as well as troubleshooting and resolving bugs that get reported. As a team, we try to put out as much new content as possible with every Premium Library update and do our best to make sure that content is functional, modeled correctly, and has all of the correct data in the various records.

 

Often, with new products we are working with preliminary drawings and specs that get changed or updated after we release. When that does happen and we are made aware of it we do our best to get the updated product released in a future Premium Library update. I cannot say if the discrepancy in the Lustre Series 3 fixtures was caused by this as I did not create those symbols so I don't know the entire history of their Vectorworks life. To further contribute to the growing list of issues is the difficulty sometimes in obtaining the necessary information that is needed to produce the models. Some companies are not very forward facing with CAD files and the necessary data and a good portion of them do not respond to our emails or calls in order to obtain that information. It is not easy to draw a lighting fixture when the only thing available on the website are isometric photographs. As a result, these requests sit unfulfilled and continue to add to the ever increasing list of issues to develop. It may take 2-3 years of emails, calls, and trying to find the right person at a trade show to get "a foot in the door" and get a contact that will be consistent and provide us with data moving forward with all future requests.

 

As mentioned above, the issue is in the system and we will get a fix out when we are able to get it scheduled amongst the other issues. It is one of the higher priority requests because these fixtures are used by a lot of designers so we do want them available. When the fix is scheduled the update will occur in one of the Premium Library updates in VW2024. You are not being ignored so please don't think that is the case as we really want to get as many issues/bugs resolved as possible but also keep in mind that the team is small overall and there is just one developer working on Spotlight content issues on the team.

[mjm]

@JustinVH—always good to gain some clarity from VWX in these situations 

[Jesse Cogswell]

I had a couple of projects where I used Lustr Series 3 fixtures and needed accurate geometry, so I built my own off of the CAD files provided by ETC.  A file containing them is attached (in VW2022 format, but I can backsave as necessary), it contains symbols for both the XDLT shutter barrels as well as the standard Source 4 / Source 4 EDLT shutter barrels.  The EDLT tubes use the geometry from the standard VW library, but the XDLT tubes were all modeled from the ETC CAD files.

 

 

ETC LED Series 3 Symbols.JNC v2022.vwx

Edited September 13, 2023 by Jesse Cogswell

[DCLD]

Many thanks Jesse, these are great. Much appreciated.

[Jesse Cogswell]

A user pointed out that the EDLT fixtures in my demo file would turn into "zombie objects" if you did any manipulations of them.  This was because I removed the dreaded "Lighting Instr" prefix from the symbols but didn't update the Lighting Device objects to compensate.  The symbols would still work properly if imported into another file or if new fixtures were placed through the Resource Manager.  In any case, a corrected file is attached below.  No changes to the underlying symbols have been made.

ETC LED Series 3 Symbols.JNC v2022.vwx

[Mark Aceto]

On 9/12/2023 at 8:32 AM, JustinVH said:

These SKUs must all be modeled with accurate data records attached and then checked and released in the Premium Library updates.

 

On 9/12/2023 at 8:32 AM, JustinVH said:

As a team, we try to put out as much new content as possible with every Premium Library update and do our best to make sure that content is functional, modeled correctly, and has all of the correct data in the various records.

 

On 9/12/2023 at 8:32 AM, JustinVH said:

When that does happen and we are made aware of it we do our best to get the updated product released in a future Premium Library update.

 

On 9/12/2023 at 8:32 AM, JustinVH said:

When the fix is scheduled the update will occur in one of the Premium Library updates in VW2024.

 

I've been trying to make sense of why there's still a Premium Library now that VW has moved to a subscription model. Apologies if you've answered this before, and I just forgot.

 

Also, it seems like the content in the Vectorworks Package Manger is not 1:1 with either Premium or stock VW libraries but maybe I'm wrong?

[JustinVH]

Thank you for providing this file Jesse as i know that it will help a lot of users. I just want to give an update that we are currently correcting the VW version of the file and while we are in there we have decided to make the Daylight and Lustr X8 versions with the matching photometrics and libraries for all available EDLT, XDLT, Standard and Zoom tubes in each body symbol. These symbols will have the updated Device Body and Device Lens fields populated in the OIP as well as the new Universal Equipment Record to work with the new Equipment Lists and Summary Key features in VW2024. Also going to confirm that the weights of the fixtures are correct and include the body, barrel, and lens tube as I have heard that there are some ETC libraries that may have this incorrect. This update will take in the September 2023 update to the Premium Libraries in the English International version of VW2024.

[JustinVH]

@Mark AcetoThere is still a Premium Library section because not all countries have switched entirely to Subscription and are still under the old pricing model of VSS and perpetual license so we had to maintain that specific area in the RM.

[Mark Aceto]

Just now, JustinVH said:

@Mark AcetoThere is still a Premium Library section because not all countries have switched entirely to Subscription and are still under the old pricing model of VSS and perpetual license so we had to maintain that specific area in the RM.

 

Thanks, Justin. I think you did explain that to me (at least) once before. And what's the relationship of the Vectorworks Package Manager to Premium and stock VW libraries? It seems the assumption is that it would just be the same content as in the stock libraries but downloaded. However, I'd swear I've found speakers and bumpers in there that didn't exist in either Premium or stock libraries.

[JustinVH]

@Mark AcetoWould you mind putting in a VB about the Package Manager vs. the shipped libraries? It should be the same as both catalogs are built from the same directory in our database. Can you also include some sort of example or file showing the difference because with our internal serial numbers it can be difficult to see some issues that user serial numbers can see because of how we sync using our machines.

[JustinVH]

Hello all,

 

I just wanted to give a follow up to this thread. The ETC Source 4 LED Series 3 library has been completed and it will be released in the September 2023 Premium Library in the US International version of VW2024. This library will feature both the Lustr X8 and Daylight HDR versions with all of the standard barrels and Zooms, the EDLT barrels for 19-50°, and the XDLT barrels for a total of 46 new fixtures. All of the weights have been updated to include the combined weight of the LED engine, specific barrel for lens, and specific lens tube as well as updated photometrics based on publicly available data on the ETC website. The power fields in the LIR are also updated to match the different wattages between the Daylight and Lustr versions and the new EntEquipUniversal record has been added for use with the new VW2024 Equipment List feature.

 

I would also like to point out there the lens tubes are drawn in their maximum forward position so that the symbol is taking up as much space as possible to make spacing decisions when hanging. There is a faint grey dashed line showing the minimum distance as well as there have been users who requested that information so they know the full distance the lens tube can move. If after viewing these symbols there is a large consensus that this grey line is not needed it can be removed and the library re-released in November 2023. Thank you all.

 

Justin 

[mjm]

4 hours ago, JustinVH said:

Hello all,

 

I just wanted to give a follow up to this thread. The ETC Source 4 LED Series 3 library has been completed and it will be released in the September 2023 Premium Library in the US International version of VW2024. This library will feature both the Lustr X8 and Daylight HDR versions with all of the standard barrels and Zooms, the EDLT barrels for 19-50°, and the XDLT barrels for a total of 46 new fixtures. All of the weights have been updated to include the combined weight of the LED engine, specific barrel for lens, and specific lens tube as well as updated photometrics based on publicly available data on the ETC website. The power fields in the LIR are also updated to match the different wattages between the Daylight and Lustr versions and the new EntEquipUniversal record has been added for use with the new VW2024 Equipment List feature.

 

I would also like to point out there the lens tubes are drawn in their maximum forward position so that the symbol is taking up as much space as possible to make spacing decisions when hanging. There is a faint grey dashed line showing the minimum distance as well as there have been users who requested that information so they know the full distance the lens tube can move. If after viewing these symbols there is a large consensus that this grey line is not needed it can be removed and the library re-released in November 2023. Thank you all.

 

Justin 

WOW and thank you @JustinVH!!!

[DCLD]

Great news. Many thanks Justin getting this done.

[JustinVH]

Just letting everyone know on this thread that this library is now live in the US International version of VW2024 in the Premium Libraries. After some discussion internally and some feedback from some select users who received a preview of this library to offer feedback the grey line showing the minimum barrel distance has been removed.