Creating a Mound

[Jack2022]

Hi All,

 

I am stuck trying to create a mound from scratch. There is no contextual landforms in the model as the area in question is a roof garden.

 

I have created closed polylines that I was hoping to give elevations and create a 'skin' to make a mound then apply a Landscape Area to the mound.

 

Screen shot below - orange lines are the ones in question. 

 

Everything I read or watch tells me I can do it using certain tools but that's where the help stops. E.g "use a pad" great - but how? There isn't a step-by-step guide anywhere. 

 

If I make them into site modifiers such as contours then the line breaks instead of being closed. Is this a problem?

 

How do I then create a surface to which I can apply a Landscape Area (or Hardscape would be better but I understand that's not possible).

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks again

 

 

[Jack2022]

Ok I have managed to convert the lines to 3D polys and given them an elevation. Now how to make a surface and apply a Landscape Area to it...

 

 

 

[Tom W.]

Yes you can convert the 3D Polys into a Site Model then use that to create a LA. See:

 

 

[Jack2022]

Ok wow great. Thanks. 

 

I didn't know about Site Models. looks like these can have components just like Hardscapes and Landscape Areas. 

 

Are these a viable alternative to Hardscapes for sloping paved areas?

 

Regards

[Benson Shaw]

Just an opinion:

 

Although Landscape Area can have components, they seem slow to redraw on my old system, especially if a tapered component is in the mix. My preferred approach for this would be to use the site model (DTM) as the substrate/filler of the mound and use a Landscape Area with components, eg a surface material and porous concrete base or whatever the section demands.   Similar to construction layers. 
 

In this case, I think the DTM mound profile should be shrunk so that the LA components sit atop (LA component datum set to bottom of lowest component), thereby adding thickness to attain finish grade. 
 

An alternate approach is to contour the DTM at finish grade, and “sink” the LA into the mound (LA component datum set to top of uppermost component), thereby excavating the DTM. 
 

-B

[Jack2022]

I made the mound semi successfully by creating contours, turning them into 3D polys then selecting them and creating Site Model. The only thing is I get areas where the surface sits outside the extents of the lowest contour and there seems very limited options to edit the mesh surface once made. I can clip the area but it results in distant random geometry spikes. If I add a vertex or go anywhere near it for editing I get random spikes of site model shooting off to distant lands. All seems very complex and glitchy for what is super simple in something like sketchup.

 

Also I will want to punch a tunnel through it soon so hoping I can just intersect geometry and delete the site model within the tunnel but that sounds too easy..?

 

Any useful tips?

 

Thanks,

 

Jack

[Tom W.]

What exactly is the desired end result? The simplest way of modelling the shape would be to use Subdivision then convert to generic soild to punch a hole through it. Then convert to auto hybrid for top/plan look. You could manually create your own 'components' if that's a requirement + report on volumes. Manually place plants (is only a small area).

?

If you post a file with what you've been working on it would be easier to comment + make suggestions 

[Jack2022]

Basically its a play area so I want to build a mound defined by contours so I can get nice smooth shapes while controlling the slope angles (we can only go to a 1:2 max gradient). The mound will need to have build up 3D components that are easily changeable just like a hardscape or landscape area so specifically: Artificial lawn top layer, then EPDM rubber crumb layer under this then concrete then the fill of void former or something. There will be a steel tube punched through to make a play tunnel and ultimately a play house on the mound and some play poles sticking up out of it. 

 

The end result really just needs to be a mound that acts like a hardscape with holes in it for the play equipment. 

 

Screen shots attached. Link to a model where I have extracted the mound and surrounding hardscape:

 

Also, if you can tell me why editing a vertex on the surrounding hardscape results in random distant invisible geometry occurring then I'll buy you a pint.

 

https://we.tl/t-XJtmduph3L

 

 

 

 

Mound test model.vwx

[Jack2022]

Perhaps there are tidier ways to create the site model surface that allow me to intersect with other mesh objects, symbols etc...

 

if I touch that surface it sends horrible geometry spikes into the distance

 

[Jeff Prince]

You can not cut a tunnel thru a site model and preserve it as a site model.

 

However, you can make a copy of your site model, ungroup it, and then subtract a tunnel from the resulting mesh components.

Prior to doing this, you will want to use the edge of your hardscape as the clip boundary for the site model to get nice clean edges.

 

Keeping a copy of your site model intact, perhaps on a separate design layer, will allow you to modify the design of the mound and repeat the tunnel digging exercise 🙂  Also, see my post on your other thread about locating your geometry near the internal origin.

 

Hope it helps...

 

Tunneling a site model 🙂

 

[Tom W.]

@jeff prince very nice as usual is that using site model components before ungrouping it?

[Jack2022]

Thankyou! nice and clear

 

I'll check out your other post and reply there.

 

Thanks all.

[Jack2022]

Sorry to labour the subject but will the un-gouped mesh objects still retain their data required for material spec call outs, volumes, areas for BIM? or do I need to do something to them to give them back this quality. In this case area, volume and materials. 

 

As you can tell I am new to BIM modelling. I always assumed that you can't just build an object similar to sketch-up as it won't have data fields or be dynamic. Rather you need to use VW (or revit etc) tools to make BIM complaint objects. I am beginning to gather, however, that you can build something in many ways, solids, meshes, symbols etc. and apply data to it after it is built. 

 

I do spend time in the Vectorworks University resource but most videos tell me I can do something but without revealing how! Hence becoming a regular on the forum. 

Anyway thank you for your help. 

 

 

[Tom W.]

You can return the area/volume/materials/etc of objects using worksheets. The data is already there. You can add additional data to objects using Record Formats. You can attach IFC but I know nothing about this. See the Data tab in the OIP for the object.

 

Use Data Tags to present the info in callouts/labels in viewports.

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, Tom W. said:

@jeff prince very nice as usual is that using site model components before ungrouping it?

Yes, having the components in advance is handy for such hacks.

[Tom W.]

1 minute ago, jeff prince said:

Yes, having the components in advance is handy for such hacks.

 

Excellent! So this means I can create my wonky roofs even more quickly in future 🙂

 

[Jeff Prince]

1 hour ago, Tom W. said:

 

Excellent! So this means I can create my wonky roofs even more quickly in future 🙂

 

I hadn’t tried anything like @Jack2022’s request until this morning.  Got it first shot, so it seems to be easy and work well.

[Jack2022]

@Tom W. Hi Tom,

 

I've been playing with this and have created a test mound as a site model, ungrouped it and looks good and has retained material info.

 

As I mentioned in my follow up post I have now lost area and a volume information. You mention returning this via worksheets. Are you able to elaborate? 

 

My ultimate aim is to be able to read data from the model for BIM workflows once everything is built. In many cases I am building the model and attributing data post building hoping to then export as schedules of info.

 

Many thanks

[Tom W.]

Worksheets/reports are a whole separate area of VW that requires some time learning. Or at least it did me. So not sure how much you've delved into it. But the most basic way is to just create a report which searches for the object/s in question + use the 'volume' + 'surface area' functions to return their volume + area:

 

[Jack2022]

I've had a play with the reports and I have an uneasy feeling this is where I will come unstuck with the required IFC/COBIE data for BIM.

 

I tried a generic Hardscape report and it contains the overall hardscape but doesn't seem to pick up any of the component information despite me doing what it asks.

 

Thanks for the pointers. One for me to investigate I think.

 

  

[Tom W.]

I know nothing about IFC requirements what exactly are you required to do? Can you attach the required data to the objects via 'Attach IFC...' in the OIP?

[Jack2022]

Hi Tom,

 

I think the issue is I am not entirely sure what level data I need to output with the model! I am exporting IFC files for coordination and assigning generic building proxy IFC profiles to all components as there aren many if any landscape IFC profiles available.

 

I am building a model that needs to be COBIE compliant for BIM level 2. 

 

I have a grasp of assigning material information to hardscape, slabs walls etc by adding data to custom materials. 

 

However when it comes to COBIE data I need to do more research. 

 

[Jack2022]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:35 PM, jeff prince said:

You can not cut a tunnel thru a site model and preserve it as a site model.

 

However, you can make a copy of your site model, ungroup it, and then subtract a tunnel from the resulting mesh components.

Prior to doing this, you will want to use the edge of your hardscape as the clip boundary for the site model to get nice clean edges.

 

Keeping a copy of your site model intact, perhaps on a separate design layer, will allow you to modify the design of the mound and repeat the tunnel digging exercise 🙂  Also, see my post on your other thread about locating your geometry near the internal origin.

 

Hope it helps...

 

Tunneling a site model 🙂

 

@Jeff prince - is there a reason to keep the layers as meshes? What difference would making them generic solids create? Difference in data content, volume, area etc? 

[Jeff Prince]

2 hours ago, Jack2022 said:

@Jeff prince - is there a reason to keep the layers as meshes? What difference would making them generic solids create? Difference in data content, volume, area etc? 

When you ungroup the site model, it provides meshes rather than solids IIRC.    Keeping a copy of you site model can provide you with the data to a certain extent, or you can convert the meshes to solids I suppose.  I would suggest not getting to hung up on the BIM of mounds, there is a diminishing return here.

[Jack2022]

Hi All,

 

is there a way to create smoother site model? Screen shots below. Is the only option to add more contours? as you can see Vectorworks doesn't seem to want create smooth contours itself. I have site model smoothing selected. Maybe use a different surface type? I still want components though. 

 

If I attempt to modify the contours I get crazy geometry shooting down to Z:0 which I can't fix.

 

Thanks