Screen Plane difficulties

[hollister design Studio]

I just opened a project file and the 2D floor plan is stuck to the screen plane...

I opened the same file, but a backup from a couple of days ago, and this is not it's behavior.

 

In both file the floor plan is on Layer 'Exist-plan' and in Class 'A-BLDG-GROUP'

 

In the older file the group containing the floor plan sits nicely on it's layer plane with everything else on that laver when I'm navigation in 3D.

In the current file the group is suddenly stuck to the screen plane even though everything else on that layer is behaving as expected.

 

I tried copying the floor plan group from the old file into the current file, but  it sticks to the screen plane too.

 

Any thoughts on what I did wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

Select the group that is erroneously (Moses Supposes*) in screen plane and take a look at the OIP. It will probably tell you it is Screen Plane. Just switch it there to Layer Plane.

 

Do you have your Plane Options (in the Info Bar) set to Screen Plane Only?

 

 

*(Singing in the Rain, 1952, Gene Kelly, Donald O'Conner. 'Moses Supposed his toeses are roses, but Moses supposes erroneously.')  [Get old enough and everything reminds you of something else]

[hollister design Studio]

@Pat Stanford 

I don't seem to have the Plane option on my OIP for group objects.

 

I only have Class, Layer, Delta X, Delta Y, X, Y and the Box Position indicator.

 

...plus you completely whooshed me with the Gene Kelly ref!

 

[Benson Shaw]

@hollister design Studio righto - the group has no plane designation.  I also tested with a new v2021 file for mixed screen/layer objects in a group:

If all group contents in layer plane, then, in flyover, group behaves as a layer plane objects.

If group content mixed screen/layer, then flyover shows mixed response - screen objects stay on screen, layer objects stay on layer.

If group contains mixed screen/layer plus some 3d objects, same basic result - screen objects say on screen, layer and 3d objects respond to flyover as expected.

 

Only way I could make the group act like a screen object is if all content 2d objects, and all assigned to screen plane.

 

Also tested a new blank drawing assigned to Screen Plane. I could not paste a group from another file (tried groups with all layer objects, mixed screen/layer, etc) that causes the pasted group to switch all contents to screen in the new file.

 

Not sure why your group would start acting like a screen object, but might be fixable: Copy/Paste into a new blank file. Open the group, Select All, OIP toggle the plane mode first to screen, then to layer, then close the group. Test with flyover.  If all good, fix the orig in same manner.  If not, post it here.

 

Or???

 

-B

 

PS @Pat Stanford Good one with Singin' in the Rain lyric!  Moses Supposes describes lots of things here abouts. Now if I could only dance and sing . . .

[Pat Stanford]

As @Benson Shaw says, what are the plane options for the objects inside the group?

[hollister design Studio]

Many objects in the group where assigned to screen plane.

 

Which is odd because when I imported from AutoCAD a couple months ago (this is the project floor plan I received from the architect) I went though and converted everything to layer plane.

In my archived files everything is layer plane.

In the current file, all of a sudden everything in this group is screen plane (excepting one object.)

 

I tried changing everything back to layer plane.

When I selected everything, the Plane option was not avalible.

So I selected with 'select similar tool' by object type and changed to layer plane that way... but some objects (converted dynamic window and door blocks from the autocad file for example) wouldn't allow me to reassign to layer plane.

I eventually gave up.

 

I made the file usable again by ungrouping and making the floorplan a 2D symbol.

This sits just fine on the layer plane.

 

I'm still unsure as to why it flipped back to screen plane on me.

all the popups hints about shortcut keys also came back resently... as if VW reset itself somehow.

 

 

@Pat Stanford  - I'm wondering why 'screen plane' exists outside of Sheet Layers?

Is it a left over from when people printed from design layers?

Is there any issue with just setting 'Plane Mode for Planar Tools" to working plane only?

 

 

 

 

 

[Pat Stanford]

The following is my own personal recollections and opinions. They have nothing to do with my role as a volunteer moderator on the forums. Nor do they in any way respresent opinions or policies of VW.

 

Screen Plane exists because in many industries, specifically architecture and entertainment lighting, it is typical or required for objects to show differently in a Plan view than in a a 3D view.  Think about a Door where you want a simplified version showing the swing in Plan while you want the full version showing all of the glazing, etc. in the model. These function area essential to entertainment lighting design and landscape architecture (plant) aspects of VW.

 

Originally Vectorworks (Minicad) started with the idea of "hybrid symbols" In these any 2D objects showed in Top/Plan view and any 3D objects showed in all other views. Over the decades, this has morphed into the more complicated but more capable system that we have today.

 

Eventually it was decided that there was a need to 2D functionality that was not fixed to the screen plane. This resulted in the addition of Layer Plane and Working Plane Object. So you can now specify what "plane" you want a 2D object (line, rectangle, dimension, circle, arc, etc.) to be on. In a hybrid object (mostly symbols and PIOs), anything that is defined as a Screen Plane object will display when you are in Top/Plan view. Objects that are in other planes will show in all other views. If you have an object that has ONLY object that are not Screen Plane (3D symbols for example), then the 3D objects will show in Top/Plan as well as in other views. Similarly, an object that has ONLY Screen Plane objects will show in 3D views as well as Top/Plan.

 

Somewhat recently (2018/2019?) Symbols (and maybe PIOs) have been updated with the ability to use "2D Components" for the Orthogonal views. These are similar to the old show Screen Plane object when in Top/Plan, but only show the 2D in the 6 primary othogonal views and only in Hidden Line rendered viewports. This gives you more flexibility in Plan and Elevation to produce drawings that contain the appropriate (maybe more, maybe less) than the 3D model does.

 

So back to your question. If your workflow does not require the use of the differential view for Top/Plan, it is perfectly acceptable to make all 2D objects to Layer Plane or Working plane. 

 

Just remember that you (and by you I mean pretty much every individual reading this post and/or using VW) uses it in a different fashion. Things that you might think are useless are critical to some other groups primary workflow. Please don't ask for things to be taken away just because you don't use them. These functions being present and getting VW a bigger install base helps keep the underlaying layers of code moving forward and makes it a better program for everyone. Four items that separate VW from other drawing software are the worksheet, Vectorscript/Pythonscript customization, stackable layers/classes, and the Hybrid view Top/Plan functionality. IMNSHO, without these items, VW becomes not much more than an on-screen drawing board. With these, you get a highly flexible, integrated system that can provide great value. At the expense of having a steeper learning curve.

 

Your mileage may vary. Now back to our regularly schedule programming.

 

Pat