4 weeks after the Switch

[Travis]

Tyler & David,

Do you realize you can double-click the line/rectangle/circle tool and enter dimensions and the point of origin before you even place the shape? Try it.

The very fastest way I know to draw a floor plan depends on the info I have:

1) If the layout is largely in my head, I lay it out with rectangles (occasionally using Add and Clip Surface or Rotate) and then trace it with the Wall tool adding Doors and Windows as outlined above. Later, you can learn about the Space tool.

2) If I'm entering as-built info (and VERY confident of the measurements), I may use the tab-data entry method and draw walls directly. Trouble is, too many as-built situations don't work out on paper, so I end up creating preliminary shapes to make things come together (like corners!) on paper.

With respect to details, we have a group of Classes prefixed Detail-xxx(-xx) that define the line-weight, fill, etc. for each of the common detail components. If I were drawing the detail Tyler asked about above, I'd use the double-clicked rectangle tool to drop in shapes corresponding to each of the construction layers (insulation, concrete wall, etc.). Then assign each shape to to appropriate Class. Using the Break-line tool, I'd draw an angled-line across one end of the whole set of shapes and Group (command-G) it. I'd immediately enter the Group (command-[ ), draw a right- triangle (polygon tool) where the hypotenuse follows the break-line. Change the triangle's attributes to No Line, White fill, send it to the back (command-B) and exit the Group (command-] ). The white fill will cover the ends of the shapes already drawn to give the appropriate illustration. I can then duplicate the break-line group, flip as needed, and place on the other end of the shapes. Later, you'll learn about creating Symbols.

Never touched the line tool. If you held a gun to my head and the dimensions and design were already known (as I presume Tyler's school assignment were), I could probably draw the above in about a minute (assuming I didn't have the advantage of our pre-determined classes). Others here will have different methods and may even be faster. I like this method because it makes changes (say the project calls for thicker concrete walls?select the shapes on one side of the wall and Move them the necessary distance, drag the wall's shape to snap; or the boss decides to use a different fill to represent insulation?simply change the Class settings and all Detail-Insl-xxx gets updated.)

My point isn't to insist anyone else do it my way, but to try to show you one way to quit thinking in "lines" instead of shapes.

Keep up the work, guys. You're tapped into one powerful piece of software that will serve you well.

[ 02-21-2005, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Travis ]

[David Bertrand]

Thanks for all the help guys,

Thanks especially to Mike and Travis.

While everyone was saying: "Use shapes, use shapes," I was unclear about editing them for nooks and crannies. Then Mike mentioned "adding" and "clipping" surfaces, and a light bulb came on in my head.

Travis' suggestions look excellent; it'll be a while before I can digest them.

Tyler, I doubt that VectorWorks would ever include a command line. It would be counter to their philosphy of the object-oriented graphic approach and would be seen as a step backward. There has even been talk of Autodesk dropping the Autocad command line, since most people are using the GUI. To use the CLI effectively, you have to be a touch-typist anyway.

What I like about Autocad is that there is no "x" and "y" entry. It's just "click in the direction you want it to go," very intuitive.

[David Bertrand]

Chris,

Put the bottle down, and step away from the bar.

[David Bertrand]

Hi Chris,

That's right. It's not the software. Problem is, most of us trained on Autocad and can't easily make a switch to a totally different concept in software. So in that way, they do control what we do.

Also, I've noticed that if a software introduces a new feature, the managers want to use it even if they don't need it. In structural drafting, we almost never used 3D, so why clog up the drawings with 3D? Just in case we need it?

The drafting staff is bogged down enough already. Why load them up with more new features? I guess it's because the software doesn't do enough as is, and the managers need more features than it has.

Have a glass of wine, Chris. It's good for you.

[wv_vectorworker]

maybe you don't need 3d but you will need elevations and sections, ??????

[Jonathan Pickup]

there are sometimes where the 3D modeling is just faster, there are some times where the 2D is faster. For a particular part of a project choose the best option..

[Kevin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by david bertrand:

Hi Chris,

... In structural drafting, we almost never used 3D, so why clog up the drawings with 3D? Just in case we need it?...

---

One day I spent a few minutes watching the drafting staff at my structural engineer's office. They used AutoCad and were very fast.

They had an advantage that many of us do not. Their scope of work is very limited. They take a floor plan template that someone else, (me), drew and overlay lines and symbols to represent a structural framing plan.

They also created custom scripts to create various detail callouts.

I agree with you David. For structural drafting, there is very little of Vectorworks that is needed. Structural drafting is a very limited form of drafting, very specialized.

It is us architects who need the 3d tools to create the forms within which the structural framing will one day exist.

[David Bertrand]

Kevin,

Thanks for that observation. The structural drafter was producing construction drawings, which are nearly always 2D. Whenever we tried to introduce a 3D element, it became a huge time killer.

Construction drawings are really very abstract and diagrammatic. They bear very little resemblance to the real thing. So why mix these drawings with something that emulates reality, as does 3D.

We usually worked with Architects. Those that mixed 3D with 2D in their construction drawings seemed never to get done. They were always lagging behind. They seemed to lack a sense of efficiency. Of course, any added labor costs have to be passed on to the client.

One architect we worked with had his people draw everything in 3D first and then base the construction drawings on those. It was a horrible disaster; I think their office was running 24 hours a day. Their drawings were so huge and cumbersome that we ended up redrawing the structure from scratch.

I would propose this:

Break the drafting team into two groups. The first group would specialize in construction drawings and would focus on the information and cad tools needed to get things built.

The second group (mostly designer types) would be dedicated to 3D work, creating realistic representations of the design to help the architect visualize the project and to provide rendered exhibits for clients and public relations. I think that there'd be so little duplication in effort that it would be negligible.

The 2D and 3D drawing files would be separate -- I know that this sounds like heresy. But how much of a 3D drawing would really be useful to a drafter doing working drawings? And how much of the working drawings are really useful to the renderer? Everyone could specialize in his own area and become more productive.

Granted, some of the newer software is designed to do both 2D and 3D plus manage bills of materials and other things I can't even imagine, while the slightest change in one area is reflected in all the other areas. I believe that Revit by Autodesk is supposed to do this. Time will tell.

Sorry for the rant. As an efficiency freak, people wasting time really bugs me, especially when they have lives outside the office.

[David Bertrand]

Chris,

You have left one very important component out of the equation-The client-Now In the real world your closed out of the deal, unless you become more cost effective, efficient and collaborate with the Consultants & clients on their level, Thats one file with the intregration of 2D,3D and data

I stand corrected. I was not aware that you could keep a running construction cost estimate with a VectorWorks 3D model. And from some of the other comments I've read, I guess it is necessary to use the 3D model to create plans, elevations and sections. Otherwise, nothing would tie together and you'd have to keep reinventing the wheel for each drawing.

Now, my clumsy attempts to draw everything in 2D shapes seem insignificant.