Change a symbol's class

[Bruce Kieffer]

Is there a way to place a symbol that was created in the none class, and then assign it to another class it in the current document without changing the none class of the symbol in other files? I want to retain it as a symbol.

[Pat Stanford]

Um, Yes.  Each symbol instance can have it's own class. 

 

If you are talking about objects inside the symbol definition, then it is a little more complicated, but as long as you only change the symbol definition in that file, it won't change the definition in any library file.

 

What are you seeing that makes you ask this question?

[Bruce Kieffer]

Pat, I have not used symbols much in the past, but now with the new Resource Manager I'm starting to use them more. I think I figured out the answer to my question based on your reply. Here's what I was seeing: I placed a "None" class symbol from another file into my working drawing, then I went to the OIP and changed it's class from None to my "Hardware" class in that drawing. When I turn off the None class the symbol disappears. This is not what I expect to happen, I expect the symbol to be hidden when I turn off the Hardware class. The solution I found is to edit the symbol inside the drawing where it's placed, then the new class works as I expect and that action does not affect the symbol in other drawings. Detailed steps:

 

1) Place a symbol created in another drawing into the "working" drawing.

2) Double click the symbol.

3) Edit the 3D component.

4) Change the class.

5) Click Exit Symbol.

Now the class is changed for that symbol in my working drawing and not the drawing the symbol was created in.

[zoomer]

The Class of a Symbol Copy in File is independent from the Original Symbol in the Library.

As Pat already said. Therefore, when you set your Lib Symbols default to a new Class,

the Copies in the File will not update.

If your Symbol is on any Class that is Visible, the Symbol is there and "visible".

If you can't see the Symbol, it may just be the case that the containing geometry of that

Symbols is assigned to Classes that are currently set to invisible.

 

In your case I assume all Symbols content is still on the "None" Class that you switched off.

[Bruce Kieffer]

1 hour ago, zoomer said:

If you can't see the Symbol, it may just be the case that the containing geometry of that

Symbols is assigned to Classes that are currently set to invisible.

 

In your case I assume all Symbols content is still on the "None" Class that you switched off.

That is exactly the case, and I now know how to correct it. Thanks

[Pat Stanford]

To expand on what Zoomer said.

 

Symbols (and groups) are "Container" objects. That means that they "Contain" other objects. Each of those objects has a class as does the container object.

 

In order for an object to be visible, its class AND the class of every CONTAINER object it is contained in needs to be visible.

 

Over the years this has caught many people. One of the places is people trying to find objects that they know are in a certain class. They set the Class Options to Active Only and can't find the object because it is in a container that is not visible and therefore the object they are looking for is not visible.

 

This has lead to a number of "rules" for best practices on using symbols. Many people always leave the container objects set to None and always leave None visible. Other people class the container object and leave the objects inside the container set to None.

 

Your choice of editing the symbols to make all of the contained objects the same class as the container is also a good way to go, but it limits what you can show.

 

I recommend that you create a test file with a couple of sample symbols with objects of different classes and containers of different classes and play with the class visibility and class options to see what you get. Once you have a good understanding of the possibilities, carefully thing about what you are really trying to do and come up with a plan that will give you the flexibility you need while being as simple as possible.

[zoomer]

42 minutes ago, Pat Stanford said:

This has lead to a number of "rules" for best practices on using symbols. Many people always leave the container objects set to None and always leave None visible. Other people class the container object and leave the objects inside the container set to None.

 

For me the none Class is always set to visible,

as it is the Class where things stay because something went wrong or better was not done right so far.

Each Object belongs to a specific Class for me.

 

And for me works best, like with my PIO's Super Classes for 0_WALLS, 0_DOORS, ....,

I have a "0_SYMBOLS" Class that all Symbols are assigned to and that (normally) is always ON.

All Symbol Content or PIO Components reside in their typical Classes.

Either by Materials only for simplicity, or as proposed, by an Object Order.

 

This way I can set my Visibilities to work isolated on PIOs, like all Walls only,

or

just see specific Components or Materials, like all Window and Door Glazing.

 

Unfortunately this prohibits the option "Active Only" but that will not work with Containers anyway.