Basic road

[barkest]

Hi,

 

I have never created roads before (never needed to) and after playing around with them it became a bit confusing (I have designer). I am just looking for a simple method with easy editing. From what I have seen am I best to go with:

 

create a polyline AEC > Create objects from shapes > Roadway (poly)

 

This seems pretty straightforward but when I edit the road (reshape) I end up getting new roads being created (branches) when I add a new vertex when I did not expect it to happen.

 

So is this the easiest method and are there any good road resources out there I can watch (help file was ok but need more)

 

thanks

[benboggs]

There are some good VWs channels on youtube - also if you dig deep enough in the service select tutorial videos you can find good info there.  I have just messed around with them and haven't done much beyond that.  .

[barkest]

Thanks

 

unfortunately on the VW channel its a bit lacking with roads and I don't have SS (educational user)

[Art V]

The roadway tool also allows for poly and nurbs based roads besides standard road elements like straight roads and T-roads, this might be better than using a polygon to create a custom road.

 

Can you share a file showing the before and after version with a short description of what you did? Using the reshape tool edits the underlying polygon of the road and as a result the road path, but I'm not sure what you mean with "new branches" when you use the reshape tool. It may be a result of the poly shape you have used to generate the road.

 

 

[barkest]

Thanks Art

 

Still working through things at the moment but in all honesty this tool is seriously broken. I have too many issues to list and keep finding new ones. From error messages that destroy the roads, to reshapes that behave erratically, can't see other objects in edit mode (this is a big deal and I have show other objects switched on) and so on. Then the simple things like rotate a texture on the road (not going to happen).

 

Even absolute basic stuff like naming: Its called custom curb then custom kerb (no consistency here).

 

My current workflow is to create polys and add surface. Then AEC > Create Objects from Shapes > Roadway (Custom curb) making sure that I do not delete the source shape. I then class the source shape and hide it. The reason for this is that Modify > Edit Roadway (Custom curb) is completely borked. Therefore if I have any changes I delete the roadway and work on the source shape then remake the road just to keep out of Modify as I am fed up of it deleting, hiding or not allowing me to select the roadway.

 

I need to spend a lot of time on this to find a way around the issues that keep happening

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by barkest

[Art V]

It seems the roadway (custom curb) is working as expected on my end in VW2017 and VW2016, even with updating the path through the edit path command from the right-mouse-button menu or by using the reshape tool directly on the road.

 

Are you using a designer version, as the the menu is different in VW2017 and VW2016 Landmark (there it is found under Landmark>create objects from shapes and not AEC>....)
Does it make a difference if you switch to e.g. Landmark workspace.

 

If you are using Architect it could be that the road tools there are a bit more limited compared to the Landmark version, though I wouldn't know why that would have to be but I've noticed differences between e.g. the stair tool between Architect and Landmark where it is more limited in Landmark so the same could be the case with the road tool. The DTM module is more limited in Architect than in Landmark, as another example of some functionality differences between versions.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Art V

[barkest]

Thanks Art

 

here is one small example. If I choose  Modify > Edit Roadway (custom curb) I only see the source shape for the roadway. Show other objects whilst in edit mode is turned on. So its difficult to extend the roadway when you can't see the massing models (as per this example). I appreciate that you can modify the roadway and extend it but I want to add a roundabout and that is very tricky with the reshape tool. So I need to modify the original shape (hope I'm making sense). The workaround is to add the roundabout then cut it and go into modify the roadway where I paste in place. Then the roundabout either disappears or show a partial shape (see image). So I exit modify and the go back into modify and bam there is the roundabout. I can now add surface and it works.

 

Unfortunately I have lots of examples of it not working including where it randomly destroys the whole roadway.

 

image 1 = roadway from source shape

image 2 = modify > edit roadway - can't see other objects

image 3 = create roundabout and the cut and paste into modify

image 4 = exit modify and then immediately go back in and the roundabout has appeared

image 5 = got there in the end

 

thanks again

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by barkest

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, barkest said:

Modify > Edit Roadway (custom curb) I only see the source shape for the roadway. Show other objects whilst in edit mode is turned on.

 

That non visibility of surrounding objects in VW is quite irritating.

It happens everywhere, e.g. Edit Slab and such.

 

To see it from the other side, I think the only situations where background visibility works are :

(Please correct me if I forgot something)

Edit Symbols, Extrudes and edit Site Model Source Data.

 

Together with Snapping often working restricted in these situations.

[Art V]

On 13/11/2016 at 2:23 PM, barkest said:

So its difficult to extend the roadway when you can't see the massing models (as per this example). I appreciate that you can modify the roadway and extend it but I want to add a roundabout and that is very tricky with the reshape tool. So I need to modify the original shape (hope I'm making sense). The workaround is to add the roundabout then cut it and go into modify the roadway where I paste in place. Then the roundabout either disappears or show a partial shape (see image). So I exit modify and the go back into modify and bam there is the roundabout. I can now add surface and it works

I get the same disappearance issue as you mentioned, so that seems a bug to me.

 

What may help as a temporary workaround is to click outside the objects while in the edit path method after you pasted the roundabout and then do an undo so that everything gets selected again. That way the roundabout object should show up properly. This may save you having to exit the edit path and then enter it again.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Art V

[barkest]

Thanks Art

 

I went back to 2015 to see if things were better and unfortunately not. In 2015 when you paste in place in the modify it just pastes in a random position. Back to 2107 and the workarounds.

 

I suspect not many people use roadways.

[Art V]

40 minutes ago, barkest said:

I suspect not many people use roadways.

I guess so. In my case I use roadways in at least 50-70% of my projects. My number one pet peeve with roads is that after years of asking, begging, wailing (ok, exaggerating a little on the wailing) there is still no proper 4-way crossing so I have to use two Tee-roadways overlapping to mimic a 4-way crossing.  It's the most common road crossing in the world and definitely the US so why it is still not in there is a mystery to me. A custom road does not work as it has no control over hiding/showing the joints.

 

Like you I suspect there are not enough people using roadways to make it an issue.

 

47 minutes ago, barkest said:

Back to 2107 and the workarounds.

Just out of curiosity, it still didn't get fixed by then?

[barkest]

nope not fixed at all. Btw we have a lot of roundabouts here in the UK (a huge amount)

 

 

[Art V]

On 16/11/2016 at 5:08 PM, barkest said:

Btw we have a lot of roundabouts here in the UK (a huge amount)

Over here too, sometimes even three "crossings" in a row, and even have double donut or 8-shaped roundabouts so at times you're in for a real spin.

[barkest]

How about this for a set of roundabouts

 

(yes it really is called the magic roundabout)

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by barkest

[Kevin C]

It is really unfortunate that the road tools have never really worked properly.  I tend to agree with Art V that not many people use the roads tools, as to be quite honest they are pretty useless, unless you have road pattern which contains no features and all junctions are a right angles to each other.  I am also perplexed as to why the 'better' roads tools seem to be intended for VW Landscape (although I don't think that they are that much better).

 

Can someone tell me if I my understanding of the design process has been wrong for the past 30 years.

 

Example: Piece of land for sale  - Client is residential developer. Say the site capacity is approx. 75 houses on a greenfield or brown filed site.

• Architectural, Engineering and client collaborate to determine best access to site, site constraints, existing wayleaves, SUDs location etc.
• Initial viability layout prepared - Architectural ONLY. (Either old fashioned set tip pen and tracing paper or VW - whichever feels best for site)
• Client signs off sketch proposals
• Bid Layout prepared - Architectural with engineering input (only if required for bid)
• Bid layout costed by client then submitted.

Assuming bid is successful.  the next stages are normally as follows:

• Detailed site design - Architectural and engineering ONLY
• Landscape Architect appointed - (but only if client deems it necessary for the development).  It is not uncommon for landscaping to be conditional on a planning consent
• Planning consent applied for
• Planning Granted
• Building Warrant applied for
• Building Warrant granted
• Commence site works

I have read on some replies to posts from people that they don't understand why people are constantly complaining.  I have invested over £16,000 in vectorworks over the past 8 years.  I cannot afford to go elsewhere. This is one of the biggest frustrations that I have with VW.  There are now far better tools out there, but for me to change all of the licenses over would put me out of business so I am stuck.

 

To make the system work all that really is required is the ability to convert a filled polygon to a road - without pavements, then attach pavements or service verges (or a combination) to the road. There will be people out there saying that what about road centrelines and stations etc. Simple, make defining a centreline (a simple polyline) part of the conversion to a road basis and that could then be used for generating stations etc..  Also if we controlled the location of the centreline, we (the engineer in this case) could properly model the cambers, gulley locations etc.so that a fully integrated DTM could be produced.  It would also mean that the cut and fill could be more accurate - give the road the thickness of the make-up and any capping and it would then be included in the calculations.

 

Sorry for the rant.  I had roads sussed last month for a 35 unit site and the client loved it (unfortunately we didn't win).  Went to do it again for another site and it just doesn't work as this site demands a more novel approach incorporating Designing Streets which means Have to just draw lines and arcs to form the roads.

 

Kevin.

[barkest]

Unfortunately our solution was a manual effort. Fortunately it's a concept and not commercial. I haven't gone back to the road tools as we just don't have the time.