Exterior walls with multiple finishes

[MaltbyDesign]

Is there a way to create an exterior wall that has a hierarchy of different siding materials? Fo example, I might have Shiplap siding from grade to window sill height, followed by a wood water table and then from there to the soffit I might have stucco or smooth cedar. Is it possible to define these finishes in a single wall type? I'm mostly thinking translating from a 2D floor plan to a 3D rendering or even elevations and sections and trying to figure out the most effective way of inputing this information. Is there a standard method for this that might be illustrated somewhere?

I come from an hand draughting and AutoCad background where plans were drawn as just the studs or concrete (or other material) and then the finish materials were only drawn on elevations, sections and perspectives. But it appears that with Vectorworks there is the opportunity to include this information right from the beginning to be included in the overall drawing. This is a simple thing if one is dealing with a single finish, but I'm scratching my head where multiple finishes are involved.

Any tips would be much appreciated.

[VincentCuclair]

Well one way would be to create a wall component 1mm thick for each material and then offset the tops in such a way that the correct material is revealed(/hidden) at the correct height.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Vincent C

[JoshW]

I've tackled this a number of ways in the past, depending on the level of modeling that you are doing. One way is to create the different wall types that you need and draw them right over top each other with the correct heights.

[MaltbyDesign]

Vincent and Josh, thank you for the suggestions. I had thought about your suggestion Josh and had hoped that there might be a more graceful way of achieving my goal. Vincent, I think I understand what you propose. I just have to experiment with the components (I've never gotten into editing the components of walls, so hopefully I can figure it out).

Thanks again.

[Patrick Fritsch]

Cameron, for quick visualization model mock-up's I often start by just using the "Extract surface" tool once my windows and doors are in. Then go in an elevation view and use the "Split" tool (w/ current selection mode enabled)to slice up the extracted cladding either vertically or horizontally, then just apply desired textures to each polygon.

I find this more versatile to do at first for client visuals and quick reviews, then you could go through the process of doing the stacked walls because if you add Wood above brick walls they should not be the same thickness in section, also avoids the pain of re-aligning stacked walls as the wall compositions/cladding changes.

[MaltbyDesign]

Thanks for that tip, Patrick. Does this work when one has already created a plan with wall styles that include siding? Or do you need to use something simpler, like a wall style that is showing framing only? Will this method retain the information in a 2D view and a Section?

[Patrick Fritsch]

Yes, even if you have a styled wall, you can extra the face to slice up and it places it a couple millimeters in front of the actual wall to essentially mask it. Therefore as the design progresses you could simply delete the extracted faces and continue with creating styled walls.

[MaltbyDesign]

Thanks for the clarification. Ultimately, would I be best to build my model with styled walls? I'm trying to develop a system of creating working drawings that will contain all the necessary information and it seems to me that the styled wall would achieve that goal. Or am I missing something?

[Patrick Fritsch]

Ultimately for construction documents, yes, but depending on your workflow and your knowledge of your clients vision, modeling straight away with styled walls could be slow and cumbersome when you have to change them because you have to adjust style definitions, Storey and Layer Z offsets and boundings to which component (slab, ceiling, etc...). Think of your workflow for your initial massing modeling presentations and the quickest way to evolve design iterations up to construction documents.

[MaltbyDesign]

Interesting. How easy is it to change the initial massing model to working drawings? Can that be done, or do I have to start from scratch and create more refined drawings once I've done massing models?

[Patrick Fritsch]

There are several methods or combination of them, depending on how simple o complicated the design is. You can use the "convert objects to" command of exploded extrusions, Convert model to floor command (or other commands hidden in the "space planning toolset" of the drop down menu, or just snap wall PIO to your massing model, check this video out at about the 30min mark.

Best Modeling practices in Vectorworks 2012:

Edited March 20, 2014 by Fritsch

[MaltbyDesign]

Very useful, thanks! I appreciate you taking the time to help, Patrick.

[MaltbyDesign]

Patrick, I was watching the video you linked to and was attempting to follow along. The one thing I seem to be having problems with is figuring out the best way to set up my storeys. If I use the Vectorworks template at start up, I get a bunch of Layers with slabs, ceilings, roofs, etc. In the video he simply identifies Floor 1, Floor 2, Floor 3, and Floor 4. When he converted the model to exterior walls, the end result seemed to allow recesses at each floor level to accommodate the floor assembly. Is there an easy way to set up storeys that is tried and true that everyone but us beginners know about?

[Patrick Fritsch]

The whole VW Storey system has been debated extensively on this forum and will most likely change or evolve shortly...at least we hope, if you dig up those long post you can read why.

My advise, would be to start simple and setup a basic storey structure and experiment changing heights. Then experiment how slabs can be bound or not to walls. If you have Service Select their are some decent tutorials on their.

Also,The storey's are linked to those layers (slab, floor, ceiling etc) but only for their creation afterwards you change the layers and you will be prompted how you want that change to affect the other Storey layers. And not the other way around as the storey's are essentially dead links to those layers after creation...a little silly.

For those floor slab gaps you see, Walls components can have top and bottom offsets, but not required as they will "heal" automatically when another wall is above or below and slab "recesses" will be cut out automatically. Again, some time and hands on experimentation is require.

In the end this modeling system has its Quirk's but you can make it work once you get your head around it and a little creative on how to make it do what you want.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Fritsch

[MaltbyDesign]

Patrick, after I wrote my question I did some looking around for clues about storey setup and you're right, the discussion is pretty extensive! I'll have to spend some time fiddling around and try to come up with a work flow that makes sense to me.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it!

[CipesDesign]

FWIW, it is also possible (and easier) to simply use Design Layers. In many instances there is no need for Stories, and in my opinion they added another potentially awkward complication to what was at one time a very intuitive program...

[MaltbyDesign]

Peter, you may be right. All I want to do is what I do when I draw by hand, and that's define a floor-to-floor height without having to think a whole lot about it. I'm not sure why I struggle so much with getting my head around object based drawing as opposed to drawing single lines...

[CipesDesign]

Cameron, Please don't mistake my comment. I wasn't saying not to use Parametric Objects (like Walls!), I was only saying that you can easily set up a VW's file using only Design Layers (and not Stories). Each Design Layer has its own "Z Space" definition, which can be very useful. Although I do use 2d Objects (lines, rectangles, ploys, etc) often in VP Annotations (especially to "dress" section VP's) I would never want to go back to using lines to represent walls, etc? I basically model everything, which is to say that I "build" the building in the computer. From this I derive all the 2d drawings needed, as well as great 3d rendered views.

If you are interested in learning more, feel free to send a private message.

[MaltbyDesign]

Peter, I understand what you mean. I'm trying to model my buildings like you, that is I 'build' the building and I think I'm struggling with some of the aspects of making the software do what I want it to do. I want to add as much information as I can, hoping that will translate to saving me time when I start developing working drawings in 2D. Is it okay to post a .vwx file here for people to look at and tell me if what I'm doing makes sense?

[CipesDesign]

Yes you can post files (or link to them) here. Use the Full Screen Reply, below.

[MaltbyDesign]

Here's a link to a little lane house project I'm working on now. I haven't done anything about sorting out the siding yet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21255348/Coachhouse2.vwx

[Guest Wes Gardner]

Stories were introduced into Vectorworks for two reasons ? to facilitate and comply with the IFC file format for transferring files to other programs and to support change management. They ARE optional as has been stated.

To really use the power of stories, you?ll need to understand how walls, and in particular, Wall Styles are created and modified to suit. For instance, in a residential scenario, I typically create wall styles with the bottom of the structural portion of the wall (2x4 or 2x6 here in the states) bound to the SLAB layer - one of the ?typical Story Layers that are created (or not) by placing a check next to it. HOWEVER, the wall itself is PLACED on a FLOOR layer (alotta times that floor layer is ?? above the slab layer ? the ?? represents the thickness of the hardwood that will run throughout this example (change the default 2 ?? to ??). In this manner, objects like doors will have their sill set at the correct elevation automatically. All of this ?binding? stuff can (and should) be set within the Wall Style. I also ?force? both the sheathing and exterior cladding to ?run long? to cover up the band board/rim joist ? just like you?d build it in the field. Once again, these offsets should ?built into? the Wall Style. You?ll need to create your wall styles to suit your project, they?ll be saved in the Resource Browser for future use.

You?ll also need to explore how slabs and Slab Styles work in conjunction with walls.

I typically set my story elevation at what I consider the ?natural? breaks in construction, particularly platform construction. So my stories ?break? at the SUBFLOOR of each floor for residential and the STRUCTURAL SLAB (or Top of Slab) for typical commercial work.

[MaltbyDesign]

Thanks for the useful information, Wes. I think that you do what I'm attempting to achieve with my drawings.

You bring up the idea of 'forcing' sheathing and cladding to 'run long', which is something I've been trying to figure out how to do. I have my walls sitting on the floor 'slab' of floor sheathing, joists and rim joists. I don't care for finished band boards and would like to have my exterior wall finish run beyond the face of my rim joists. Is there a tutorial that shows how to do this?

[Guest Wes Gardner]

@ Cameron

The easiest way I know is to edit the Wall Style, then choose one of the components, in the example, I've used the Wood Siding, then, in the Wall Component editing dialog box, enter a MINUS figure - in my case MINUS 1'-2 5/8". This "forces" the wood siding DOWN to cover the band board. The sheathing is handled in the same manner. For me, this methodology just seems to "make sense". Vectorworks DOES have an automated approach where you can set various offsets in the SLAB dialog such that they will "automatically" cut back the various wall components. However, in a building of any complexity, this tends to break down. Once again, for me, if I create my wall styles the way it's really built in the field, it seems to work better for me.

I believe our tutorials show the "automated" approach...

Also something else that I HIGHLY recommend, note how ALL of my components are set to "Use Class Attributes". This will give you the most flexibility down the road when creating drawings - trust me, it's the way to fly...

Wes

Edited March 24, 2014 by Wes Gardner

[MaltbyDesign]

Wes,

Thanks so much for the explanation! I'm going to try your preferred method.

Can you tell me if there is a tutorial for creating wall styles from scratch? The VW library doesn't seem to include the sorts of wall finishes or rain screen components that I need to utilize and I'd like to learn to create walls styles to suit my needs.

Thanks again for all your help!